Great things are not done by impulse, but by a series of small things brought together – Vincent Van Gogh

GOA WAS BETTER OFF IN THE HANDS OF THE PORTUGUESE…….

old-map-of-goa

‘Goa was better off in the hands of the Portuguese’ I’ve heard this rhetoric before, as have many of you who hail from Goa. People say this more as a reaction to the frustration they feel about the current situation in the State, but imagine my surprise when I saw a group on Facebook that thought the same thing!

This group describes itself as a group “for all goans who believe that goa woud be better off with portugal,and this was the flag of goa when it was under the portugese.” (The spelling mistakes aren’t mine). It’s a small group and most of the members are young people.

2392737531_3156f856d6

“Honestly?,” I thought, was Goa really better off in the hands of the Portuguese. At 451 years, Goa has witnessed the longest colonial rule in the world. “Do you speak Portuguese” is a common question asked to me by my friends in Bangalore and I say “no, in fact very few people in Goa speak or know Portuguese”. When you think of it, its surprising that after being ruled for  451 years the language has virtually disappeared, a mere 46 years after the departure of the Portuguese. In fact Goa has so deeply and completely integrated itself into India that few are bemused by the transition.

But was “Goa better off under the Portuguese”, I honestly don’t know. From the little that I’ve read and studied, when the Portuguese left Goa, Goa was pre-industrial, and that’s why the high level of migration to other parts of the world and India in search of jobs. Goa didn’t even have adequate educational institutions and people had to go to Mumbai, Belgaum, Dharwad to study. The economy was largely agrarian and depended heavily on mining. The infrastructure was old. Very little was manufactured locally and Goa depended much on the imports of food commodities first from India and then after the economic blockade from Portugal. Politically, there was little freedom or equality of participation. So what was better about Goa when it was under the Portuguese?

Picking my brains, for sometime now, I think the answer lies elsewhere.

  1. In the romantic versions we young people have constructed about the days of yore. Perhaps they are based on the stories told to us by our grandparents, or from the colourful tins our grandmothers retained of milk powders, biscuits and other commodities they bought.
  2. Perhaps it stems from the desire of most Goans to migrate abroad in search of greener pastures.
  3. Perhaps it stems from our ignorance of our recent past.
  4. Or perhaps it emanates from our fear that we are loosing our identity too fast, to the multi-cultural potpourri called India

The answer could be one or some or all of these. It could be more reasons than my limited knowledge has allowed me to note.

But if there is a feeling that Goa would have been better off under the Portuguese it must be recognized and addressed. This is not to slot people into right and wrong but to note from where this feeling stems.

Indian Army

I personally feel very ignorant about my history. Today, we are fortunate to still have some freedom fighters alive, even though very advanced in age, but I had few opportunities to hear them share their experience. Given that Goa did not have a particularly violent freedom struggle, though it definitely was a protracted one, but where is the documentation. Where is it being shared with the younger generation? Where is the opportunity for us to take pride in it?

I was not taught Goan history in school. In fact, a quick quiz would reveal that Goan students know more about Egyptian, Greek, English, American and Russian history that about Goa. Years later the Education Department did make an attempt to correct the situation, but the slim book was an addition to the history book, an after thought and studied briefly. I honestly don’t know if any serious thought went into the reasons for introducing Goan history. I can only hope that today it is taught in more details and introduced early in a student’s academic life.

But for us, people in their 30s and above, we are definitely trying to make our Portuguese passports, hankering after the rosy past. The lack of knowledge of our history, our culture and heritage is reflected in the way we treat and neglect it, and that’s why heritage conservationists have a huge battle on their hands. I guess they can with time convince the Government and even the builders lobby, but how do they teach the people of Goa to love what is theirs and see value in it.

Advertisements

Comments on: "GOA WAS BETTER OFF IN THE HANDS OF THE PORTUGUESE……." (153)

  1. I too believe that Goa was better off in the hands of the Portuguese. I am a Goan but working in the Gulf; everytime I visit Goa during my vacation, it is very depressing to see the state Goa is in now, compared to my childhood days.

    • Hi Judy,
      I’m not Goan and just visited Goa for the first time last week.
      Curious to know what Goa was during your childhood ( presumably when Goa was under Portuguese rule)
      Jay

    • Alright ma’am! You’re entitled to an opinion. Could you substantiate reasons for your opinion? If you can’t am sorry I’d have to term you novice. Please research before you speak!

      • Dear Adi S,

        Why does it surprise you, or indeed any Indian that Goans don’t want to be a part of India.

        If a Frenchman were to tell his own countrymen that he didn’t want to be French, they’d tell him to **** himself. They wouldn’t bother. Because the French are comfortable with themselves.

        Now, I wonder why Indians NEED to claim Goans as their own. Even when so MANY Goans clearly speak for themselves and say that they don’t consider themselves Indian. Are the Indians insecure?

        Let Goans decide for themselves or you will have one more enemy among the many that India has earned in this world. We Goans are a proud race and we are proud of our many differences from India. We love Portugal and we love our own GOAN culture.

        Take it or leave it – I don’t know why so many insecure indianos like to comment on something that is beyond them. What’s the matter Indianos? Why are you even here, reading this?

        God is great and He has a special plan for us Goans. God Bless the Portuguese for shining a great light upon us. I am so proud of my Goan and Portuguese heritage.

        Viva Goa e Portugal para sempre!

    • that goan boy said:

      |We would all very much like to know what Goa was like during your childhood days. Whether under portuguese rule or not. In your childhood days could you discern censorship? What exactly have you based your post on? Kraft cheese was available at the time? Which years are you talking about? The years when there was no publlc transport except a random caminhao? Did you have your own Skoda then?

    • GO to Portugal then and be in your childhood :/

  2. Marcos A dos Santos said:

    With due respect to present India inclusive of Goa in it, most of us have lost our ethics and respect to others as well as our self respect as most of us does not know our culture and ways.. anything goes. Ofcourse those (who say we are decent) are minority but ofcourse when it comes to each one of us from rags to riches every one is decent and excellent to themselves.

    We have no name as a Goan as someone has stripped it from us and we are minority to defend ourselves.

    We are talking about education and Industries – I guess we had better ethics then, than now, and that is without education. Who in Goa was interested in studying in Goa.. There were schools, but they wanted other better option like how we have better education as of today in Goa, but still (inclusive of me) we try to educate our children outside Goa and outside India and we even try to migrate somewhere – all as of today. So lets’ not blame education in Goa.

    Goan’s were and are still recognized everywhere except in Indian-Goa as of today. The authorities and concerned should educate themselves to educated others. Discrimination is going on in “Indian-Goa” for the Goans. There are several things to look at where authorities close their eyes.Goa . Goa is not the same what it was between 31 and 47 years ago and much before.

    Why was Goa good then?

    The real Goan had ethics, and still have.
    We have our distinctive culture – being lost.
    We had roads for the transportation we had at that time.
    We had foreign luxury cars like Mercedes, Wolseley, Consul, Morisminor, etc.
    We had drainage system
    We had Muslims, Hindus and Christians living in harmony
    We were God fearing regardless of Religions.
    We had security within the neighbors aside from the Govt.
    We did not have thieves robbing our houses at such a frequency as today.
    We were not cheated like how we are cheated now with money, property, etc.
    People helped each other
    We dressed well for occasions and ceremonies with a complete suit –now ?
    We had the dignity as a Goan identity – what we have lost today.
    We had good laws to benefit women after marriage.
    We have the Gaumkars, Zondkars & both as title for shares, still enjoying it.

    We could not build Goa well as there was no resources and we were kept aside as if a Lion need to be caught so starve him from food to have him hungry and and starve him from luxury to get his greed to a peak so he accepts, and catch him when he is weak then. The churches, the temples the great Goan houses, the Govt Buildings which still stay upright with a nice scenic view is what the Goans did for them selves – thanks to the Kundbis.

    I guess there are some lost people who still does not know what the reality is as it cannot be compared as the former is missing – so cannot be compared.

    Appreciate and Hats-off to those who still cling and preserve the Good Indian Culture as well as Goans keeping their Culture to their best – God Bless.

    With great respect, we hope for a better Goa hugged well in her arms as India.

    Marcos

    • Alvaro Menezes said:

      Well said my friend! But why insecure about your identity? I am Goan and trust me, Lillian would agree with me when I say that I have never been discriminated intentionally. Once in Delhi I was asked where was I from and when I said ‘Goa’! That redneck looked at me with utmost disdain and asked me if I speak Portuguese. I said ‘Yes’ he asked me to choose loyalty between Portugal and India. At that moment I was scared shitless. Now I laugh at it. i don’t have to prove my patriotism to anyone. First let us not look at Delhi with suspicion. Let us work with Delhi like every other state does.
      My advice to you would be to embrace Goanism. Be a Goan, welcome people with open arms, tell them about our culture and identity. Do not shun them. People from North India are aggressive and loud thanks to their history, let us show them our unique and accepting culture. Now they’re our countrymen, Portuguese are gone, accept history. Hoping to hear from you.
      Tenha um bom dia!
      O seu amigo
      Alvaro Menezes!

      • Alvaro Menezes said:

        Dear Rodrigo
        I am a Catholic. But that is not my primary identity. I am an Indian first. For me being an Indian does not mean to wave the Indian flag during a cricket match or sing the anthem on Independence Day or the Liberation Day. It is beyond that.
        I am your very average Indian. I was born in Goa, studied in Goa, later for college I moved to Mumbai, now I am working in Bangalore and my cousin Richard is working in the IAF. I pay my taxes and expect some for of development from my Government, which lately has been dismal. The performance of the Congress led UPA is horrendous.
        Just like every other Indian I detest some of the policies of my Government and am very vocal about it.
        Why do you pick on Adi S? I would answer your questions you certainly are no gonna hear from him. Oh btw, he is my amigo, childhood amigo. Nobody in India is insecure about Goa. Goa is irreversibly a part of India. Indian Armed Forces are mighty enough to protect the territorial integrity of India, but alas we have a very weak PM and a weaker Defence Minister.
        We Goans are proud of ourselves! I indeed agree. May it be known to you that during my visit to Delhi I too was discriminated by the local rednecks of Delhi. I was asked embarrassing questions about Goa and Goan culture. I developed the same form of resentment as you harbour today against ‘Indians’. Well, truth be said, these rednecks discriminate all people who are from the Southern part of India. Does it mean that South Indians seek liberation from New Delhi based Government? My friend you got to be better than that! i do not want to get down to the level of those daft punks and filthy pooches who rape at will and have no form of respect for people around them. We as educated lot should be better than them. Rodrigo, por favor, read, understand and travel.
        Hence when I understood that these people who often come to Goa and misbehave, they are a minority. They are hated in their home state too. We have got to be better than them. Please rise above hate.

  3. Marcos A dos Santos said:

    We did not have dirt flying all over with someone spitting Pan in the middle of the road and corners, but had a well clean city in a well organized way with responsibilities, Conscientious work ethics, respect and cleanliness unlike commerical unclean ways.

  4. Luis Correia said:

    My uncle served in the Portuguese military in Goa, he is actually from there, he himself stated it… India did not want the Goa state to prosper.

    If you look at the History of Goa, you will find that Gandhi never had to go there, mention it or defend its people, because the Portuguese were not oppresing the residents of Goa.

    Also unlike the British (or anyother colonial power) the Portuguese gave full Nationality to anyone of Portuguese decent in Goa, even if their entire family was never in Potugal or interacted with a Portuguese Ntional.
    Portugal gave the access for migration between the colonies and Europe.

    To this day you can still have a European Passport if you trace your lineage to Goa, from the time prior to its independence, Portugal willgladly grant you citzenship… try it with England to see what the others in India have to face.

    Although there were no Universities in Goa, the Portuguese Schools there gave plenty of Education, and availability to travel abroad to study in Europe or African colonies for further studies.

    The Portuguese may have been many things but they were not there to set a colony away from any Indan influence, hence the reason why the change over of Language (by the way Portuuese was never the official Language of Goa) and traditions went so smoothly.
    As opposed to British India, which enslaved its subjects, and dd things which are beyond acceptance, and today Indians born during Britis rule CAN NOT apply for British citizenship.

    Hope this sheds some light on what the differences there were as compared to today.

    Louie

  5. Nuno Pereira said:

    I’m not Goan but I am Portuguese, and the fact is that here in Portugal Goans are considered full status Portuguese also, an integral part of the culture of this maritime nation [that’s why full entitlement to citizenship exists]. Keep up this extremely interesting blog, não desistam, não baixem os braços, muito obrigado por tudo e bom trabalho.
    Saudades +

  6. Rodrigo A Pereira said:

    Excellent article. And an extremely relevant question today.

    AS a young and informed Goan , I find myself fast discovering the old ties that held together the Goes and the Portuguese peoples in times gone by. I am proud that my people have started to awaken to the fact that we are different from the Indians and always will be. God Bless Portugal!

    Viva Goa e Portugal!

    • mentalidade said:

      Nice comment!
      It is up to you the younger generation to make the best for Goa, whatever that maybe.
      It could be autonomy, independence or even belonging to India.
      The key is that it should be your choice and your choice only as Goans

      • Grato Mentilidade 🙂

        I’m so glad to see others come out and defend our culture and heritage from Godless usurpers who have no business reading my comments.

        Our heritage is safe in the hands of people like us and God will guide us well. Just like those ships he brought to our lands, so many years ago 🙂

        Uma grande abracao de um irmao Goes x_o_x_o_x

  7. John Santos said:

    You can’t bury the truth and you certainly can’t bury a good thing. Take heart in these events my friends, for I predict that these instances will only serve to further strenghten the Goan people as they awaken and embrace their latent Portuguese spirit.

    • Alvaro Menezes said:

      I have good and bad news for you.
      Good News: You can call yourself Portuguese and celebrate your new found identity.
      Bad News: Portuguese are long gone and are not coming back. Rather, once bitten twice shy, they are not gonna mess with the Indian army again.
      Tome Cuidado!

      • mentalidade said:

        Let’s see you talk of such bravery against Pakistan and China for contested lands!

        Seriously no one is suggesting armed confrontation BUT rest assured that if Goans were well organized and needed Portugal’s political help for their self-governance, I see it as a guarantee. We did it in East Timor and the world listened.

        I doubt very much that Portuguese want Goa back. I believe that Portuguese want what is best for Goans

  8. Goa wasn’t once called the “Lisbon of the East” for nothing! We had trade plying across Europe & Africa from our port.

    More importantly we had dignity and a good standard of living compared to the rest of India, some of the bridges, airports & famed Baroque architecture still stands today as a testimony to how well planned the Portuguese were.

    So it is with no surprise that today we still reminisce those days.

  9. well said…..we are different from rest of india…..

    we do have pride in ourselves that we were under portuguese rule…and it’s our honour that portuguese govt. is considering that goans born before 1961 are considered as official portuguese citizens….viva goa e portugal…

    • Alvaro Menezes said:

      Why don’t you go to Portugal if you love Portugal so much?

      • Mentalidade said:

        Dear Adi S

        Tu escreves melhor do que eu.

        You offer lots of info but the bottom line is this, it’s impossible for Goa to always have belonged to India, given that India is barely one century old. India was made up of various kingdgoms (tribes in N America), and some of those kingdoms are now independent countries, but you know that.

        You are defenatly wrong about Spain not wanting to “accumulate” Portuguese into their kingdom. History tells us otherwise with over a dozen major wars and squarmishes. On the same subject, the lastest polls show that there’s a 50/50 chance of Catalon to split in the near future. If they lose the next World Cup, I bet you the separate forces will gain momentum.

        Back to the topic, Portugal has NO claims to Goa -period.
        Those decisons were made by dictators who themselves were booted out – PLEASE REMEMBER THIS.

        I think that most Portuguese would be proud had Goa gained special status like Quebec. In my oppinion (maybe biased) it’s an historical crime for India to mufull it.
        India never gave Goa a chance for self-determination as promissed by Mr Kaul,
        I honestly believe if Goa had sit tight for another decade, the outcome would have been differente, maybe like Cabe Verde or Quebec.

        You say “My Indian-ness is also for the fact that ethnically I am an Indian in redneck lingo am a ‘brown bastard’ and I am proud of it.” PLEASE do NOT deviate from topic. Lets’s be CLEAR you said and I quote “I was not talking about the Indian landmass i was talking about Indian-ness”- that is- you’re justifying India is 5000y. Ironackly this is the comment that prompted my first reply because It’s illogical.

        “brown bestard” LOL! I never herd that before and yes you should be proud – so why deny the same exact proudness to so many other Goans of their Portuguese heritage?

        Let’s face it, if Goans were completely satisfied with India’s “liberation”, you and I would not be here now.

      • Olá meu amigo! Fico feliz em ver que estamos tendo um debate pacífico e respeitoso. Obrigado. É realmente uma honra para debater e aprender com você.
        Back to the debate.
        Have you studied Indology? Or any studies pertaining to the history and politics of India? Yes, you’re indeed correct when you say that India was ruled by a lot of principalities or minor kingdoms. They were divided politically but united culturally until the Muslims. Under the Islamic Caliphate, India was known as Hindustan meaning Land of Hindus. Under rulers like Sher Shah Suri and Akbar, the title that they had for themselves was Emperor of India, I don’t clearly know what the literal Persian translation was. So the fact is that, the identity was always present. I would quote you here, “India was made up of various kingdgoms (tribes in N America), and some of those kingdoms are now independent countries, but you know that” The its only Nepal and Bhutan which remained independent. Bhutan is an Indian protectorate. India looks after its external defense and has a major chunk of its FDI, off the record Bhutan is a glorified Indian colony and Bhutanese don’t mind that. With regards to Nepal, now its a communist nation. Very sad that Indian Govt under Congress Party does not care when there are blatant human right violations. Thing about Nepal is that, all Nepalese are entitled to Indian citizenship and there’s a visa free border exchange.
        Yes I am very much aware of the April 25 Carnation Revolution. My best wishes are always with the Portuguese people. I don’t consider them as my enemies but as my friends.
        The referendum to Goan people was with regards to its State or eventual integration into Maharashtra.
        I’ll quote you here again, “I honestly believe if Goa had sit tight for another decade, the outcome would have been different(sic), maybe like Cabe Verde or Quebec”. The reality was that in 1947 British left and in 1954 and Portuguese had no business to remain in India. Btw Goa was known as “Estado da Índia”. It was an Overseas Province. So my friend all the talk about equality must have been an eye wash to keep the Indians at bay. Expulsão do Português a partir Goa era iminente. Foi Portugal que fez é difícil para Goans. Talking about proudness of my identity, am a brown bastard and proud, my very close friend Alvaro Menezes is of Portuguese ancestry. But is very proud of being Indian. Goans who are Portuguese nationals should be proud of their nationality, but they have no right to speak or abuse the Indian Govt. We have elected our govt democratically, we pay our taxes and we have our set of problems of corruption and nepotism. Well such a phenomenon is pan-India. We Indian youth are fighting this issue and will emerge victorious. Now who is a foreigner to comment upon my nation and national issues? Would you tolerate if a foreigner abuses your nation or anything that you hold immense pride in identifying yourself with? Or would you tolerate someone third person hurts your pride? Am sure you wouldn’t tolerate such a behaviour! And as many people are there in the world there are so many opinions. Many Goans took up Portuguese citizenship, good for them. They were clearly not happy with the liberation. For my family and many others, liberation came as a sign of relief. I’ll narrate to you a true instance which happened to my grandfather. An Indian Army officer, on the 19th Dec evening saw my grandfather wearing a suit walking towards the seat of the new govt which was under Gen. Candeth. So this officer asked my grandfather who he was and to account for his actions. My grandfather’s reply was, “Officer, I’m an Indian citizen and now I am under no one’s authority, am a free man who would live with honor.” The officer smiled, shook my grandfather’s hand and took him into the office where he met Gen. Candeth.
        Desculpe i tendem a falar muito. Acho que estou envelhecendo mais rápido do que o normal.

      • Mentalidade said:

        Dear Adi S
        (for some reason I can not reply directly to you-nor to myself actually)
        Thank you for your complements and like-wise.

        “The referendum to Goan people was with regards to its State or eventual integration into Maharashtra.” I am aware as far as “integration” part-but as a State (as in self-determination?) are you sure? Please send links!

        “54 and Portuguese had no business to remain in India”. Again, I reiterate that 1) PT was NOT a democracy then (not the will of the majority) and most importantly 2) It is IMPOSSIBLE for Goa to EVER been considered part of of India (as in Country) – given that the Country did NOT exist 500 y ago.

        “Estado da Índia” yes as in general land area (many countries) NOT as the Country of India (~100y/old)-two distinct concepts. Otherwise, all the countries that boarder the Oceano Indico(Indian Ocean), should also belong to India. I also believe that “Estado da Índia” maybe a relatively new description.

        “Expulsão do Português (Salazares) a partir Goa era iminente.” I agree, emphasizes on “dictatorship”. This is why I said -it’s too bad Goa didn’t hang on for another decade -the end result would have been different, likely as Cape Verde or Quebec status.

        “they have no right to speak or abuse India” I agree, just like I’m sure you agree that many Goan nostalgic(s) are just as abused. On the same subject, I strongly object to Mr Kaul’s explicit implication that Goan’s were and I quote “slaves” of Portugal. This man spoke on behalf of India for Goodness sake. Good thing that nowadays finger-pointing is no longer accepted as evidence+proof.

        Sim tens “a tendencia de falar muito.” To me that’s a sign to deliberate change the subject (a defense mechanism) or lack of focus (a future goal)

        If there is any consolation, I also know Portuguese families who also suffered at the ends of the SAME dictator, and I’m talking from first hand experience too.

        In summary,
        1) Goa never belonged to the country we now call India
        2) Goans were never polled on self-determination (please send links otherwise)
        3) Unlike Macau, it’s an Historical crime that India has neglected Goa / Damão / Dio’s Portuguese Heritage. Call it Biased Proudness too!

        Hopefully, that you, as a young and proud Goan will correct #3).

      • Dear Mentalidade!
        With regards to integration of Goa into India the referendum, I read it in a a book called “Constitutional History of India by Seervai” its a law book. I read that book in the year 2010 when i was in law school
        books.google.co.in/books?id=MCo9AQAAIAAJ
        books.google.co.in/books?id=YiI9AQAAIAAJ
        The referendum was given only for choosing between being a Union Territory under the rule of the President through a a Lt. Governor who is a constitutionally selected non-military personnel of the President’s office or integrate into State of Maharashtra. In India, the President is elected by the elected members of the two houses of the Parliament. The President has not much powers and what I said previously was one of the powers of the President. Furthermore, in India, the political sub-divisions are as follows. There is a Central Govt and there are localized State Govts. State here in a sub-division not a provision for self-determination. Please don’t confuse between the term ‘State’ in International Law and Indian Constitution these are separate terms which are defined differently. So Goa in 1967 decided against merging into Maharashtra and decided to be a Union Territory under the administration of the President of India, Goa made history when it gained statehood under the Part 6 of Indian Constitution. So the Centre-State relations are governed under that provision.
        Again you come back to the fact that India did not exist before 1947. It was the Republic of India as recognized under the provisions of the Indian Independence Act, 1947 and Indian Constitution which did not exist. Again I reiterate, it is the Indian identity which constitutes India and not vice versa. If you have ever visited India, you might appreciate my point. “You can take us out of India, but you can’t take the Indian out of us” During imperialism it was this very identity which united us. Secondly, Portuguese took Goa away from Adil Shah and in steps or sieges they conquered more portions from other neighbouring kingdoms so it was the Portuguese who stole Goa and India reclaimed it, please read the books, A History of India by Romila Thapar and A History of India by Prof. Peter Robb, you’d get the version of events as they happened. And also read “Can the subalterns speak” by Gayatri Spivak, now you’re essentially reading a subaltern’s writing under the Portuguese domination esp under the Portuguese Colonial Act, I would have had the right to speak. India was culturally united and politically divided prior to independence. So much for the British policy of divide and rule. Now we have woken up to the fact that we cannot be divided anymore and Goans too would agree to that. So the basis of non-existence of Republic of India prior to 1947 as a defense for illegitimacy of Indian claim is not valid. For prior to 1510 Goa was the hub of Hindu Brahminical culture and the Portuguese destroyed it so the true culture of Goa was eroded with Estado de Portugal de India.
        Your claim that Goa was never part of India (politically) would be true if the Azad Gomantak Dal liberated Goa bereft and aid from the Indian Govt. In reality, may a Goan freedom fighters, including, Anthony D’Souza, Juliao Menezes, Tristao Braganca Cunha, Gaitonde, Libia Lobo Sardesai, Purushottam Kakodkar [Member of Indian Parliament(MP)] and many others wanted integration into India. Yes there were a small pocket mostly of Catholics who were apprehensive of coming under the rule of India for they feared that they would be persecuted, nothing of that sort happened. And a microscopic minority wanted Salazar regime to continue.
        Last but not the least, you should answer this for yourself, why is Pondicherry enjoying its French heritage and still showcasing its Francophilia? If Indian Govt was to have a problem it should have had a problem with the Francophillia out there too? Why is the problem still subsisting only with Portugal on a microscopic level? So the blame is on Portugal, they should have shook hands with India and left latest by 1957, in such a case, Portuguese Heritage in Goa would have been celebrated a lot more. Also, Salazar’s order of, “scorched earth” was not appreciated, in other words he has no respect for the Portuguese Heritage in Goa.

        Em conclusão:
        1) Qualquer forma de debate de filiação política de Goa para a Índia é fútil.
        2) Goa é irreversivelmente uma parte da Índia e do mundo aceitou, então tem o regime de 25 de abril, em Lisboa, por favor, aceite isso e “move on”
        3) Sob o domínio do Estado Novo, eu não teria sido um cidadão igual.
        4) Goa é indiano e interferência externa não seria apreciada.

        Let me re-iterate this, Goan angst is not against the Portuguese, you are our friends! We dislike the Estado Novo, now we have moved on and have extended our hand of friendship, it is time, you too move on and accept us for our nationality and loyalty to the Indian Union.

        Obrigado por mais uma oportunidade de falar e aprender com você. Na esperança de ouvir de você.

      • mentalidade said:

        Dear Adi S
        It seems you want to end this debate and so do I. We’ll part to agree to disagree.

        As anyone can see in this thread and other sources, there is a distinct division between nostalgic and non-nostalgic Goans. I believe the reason is that Goans were never polled with a simple yes or no question “Do you want to be an Independent country w its own constitution” -but no such referendum exists. Instead as you say “The referendum was given only for choosing between being a Union Territory” -but NOT on self-determination as Kaul promised.

        I already addressed your claim that “Indian identity which constitutes India, you called “Indianess” before- to justify that India is 5000y old. Again if that is so, then USA is 10,000y/old

        “so it was the Portuguese who stole Goa” – that is interesting, If they stole Goa why didn’t they also “steal” and then owned Japan and Macau (leased). I always thought they’re invited by Hindus to fight the common enemy at that time and were awarded with land.

        “So much for the British policy of divide and rule. Now we have woken up to the fact that we cannot be divided anymore” – I though we were talking about Portugal?

        “the true culture of Goa was eroded” isn’t that exactly what India has done to Goa? Moving new people in big numbers / changing history / ignoring infrastructure / encouraging immigration / etc? Just like the Spanish did to Catalon.

        “Yes there were a small pocket mostly of Catholics who were apprehensive” – that’s the problem you will NEVER know the definition of “small” – because there was NO option for self-determination

        “So the blame is on Portugal, they should have shook hands with India and left latest by 1957” – AGAIN is there a referendum to determine how many Goans wanted to join India in 1957? And what if in 1957 Goans were under the current democratic government – would the majority still opted to be under India? We’ll never know.
        I do fully agree with you that Salazar was an imbecile.

        1) I am afraid you’re right
        2) I though you liked to debate? I guess I was wrong!
        3) False. Goans were 100% Portuguese citizens. I believe even their grand-kids are too.
        4) same as 2) with an addition that- many Goans also consider India as an outsider too.

        “you are our friends!…and have extended our hand of friendship,” the local government should listen to you next time the ship Sagres comes to visit, per example.

        I believe I made that very same point very clear from the beginning that “Portugal has no claims to Goa, now”. I personally don’t have a problem with it and wish Goa all the best in your future. I do wish that India treated Goa, Damon and Dio in the same manner as how China treats Macau (Autonomous, World Heritage sites, etc)- that is WITH PRIDE and RESPECT for THEIR PAST HISTORY.

        I therefore, agree to disagree!
        Regards

  10. GOA WAS BETTER IN HANDS OF PORTUGUESE……ATLEAST THERE WAS NO CORRUPTION..
    1510 TO 19TH DECEMBER 1961

    • Alvaro Menezes said:

      Do you belong to the pre-1961 gen? If not, dont speak uninformed.
      Prior to voicing you opinion please follow the following steps:
      1. Research: A basic step involving reading either online or from books in a place called library. Preferably read from primary sources.
      2. Comprehend: Meaning understand what is being conveyed. Knowledge is important. Knowledge is all encompassing. Knowledge is respected.
      3. Form an opinion: The easiest of all steps.
      4. Express it.

      you unfortunately have skipped the first two steps.

      • Dear Alvaro Menezes,

        Friend. Why do you speak with such passion against a young person who is expressing his opinion. You cannot be a Goan because I know of no Goan (certainly not a Catholic) who will ever speak ill of the Portuguese.

        I am proud of the blood in my veins and people like you make me even prouder – we are different from the Indians and will keep proving it every time we are called to do so.

  11. Megha Gulati said:

    Pardon me but ‘We have pride in ourselves that we were under Portuguese rule’? So what is our stand on freedom fighters? The ones from Goa? The ones who alleged that the Portuguese were authoritative, arrogant and felt the need to be liberated? What about the kinds of Mohan Ranade? Just curious.

    • Mark Dsouza said:

      Megha… Life is about choices..Was it a good choice to expell what was good and join th corrupt/uncivilized rape of sisters and land and you think the choice we regret or rejoice?..Goans are not mad to denounce Indian citizen ship for foreign Nationality..GOA WAS NEVER A PART OF INDIA AS IT WAS TAKEN BY FORCE WITHOUT REFFERRUNDUM AND WIHTOUT OUR CONSENT AND AGANIST OUT WILL.

      Look at at Goa Now… and what it was then.
      Do you know how long Portuguese rule Goa and then British ruled India which never even existed..

      • I doubt whether people know proper history who are debating here…From the above statement it sounds like Goa was peace of land which Portuguese brought with them. Come on fellas, Goa is Goa and it was always a part of India before even the Mauryan empires came to Goa in the 4th Century BC….Albuquerque and Da gama were greedy dogs who came in search of trade and spices and also to spread Christianity in south Asia..unfortunately they landed up in Calicut…then later to Goa…

        They never loved Goa..they loved its wealth and were more interested in transporting it to Portugal via sea routes.

        People just remember Goan history doesn’t start from 1510…

      • You do not know nothing clown. The Portuguese people loved and loves Goa. Goans have friends and family and do not think like you. Only you know talk about Vasco da Gama, but do not you remember that Goa was a hundred years ago? At this time Portugal explored Goa where? Who benefits? As for Christianity, when Portugal was a country open to new religions, we are in the crapper for Christianity, each of which is how … will learn to read and write clown.

    • Hello Peter!

      Do u work for some circus? i was just wondering as you are mentioning clown everywhere…..:P

      Just kidding man…

      Whatever Ravi Mentioned is absolutely correct, he is talking about what actually happened. I see many comments on this page and from most of the comments it looks like this is the effect of indoctrination.

      People doesn’t know proper history at first and they talk anything (i m not talking about you).

      From 1560 to 1774, a total of 16,172 persons were tried and condemned or acquitted by the tribunals of the Inquisition.

      Those who where refused to accept Christianity were sentenced to various punishments totaled 4,046, out of whom 3,034 were men and 1,012 were women.

      Thousands of people migrated to neighboring states because they don’t wanted to accept Christianity.

      Later on conversion trends slowed down and Portugal said we are open to new religions but before that damages were already done.

      I am Christian by religion but I simply don’t believe what people say, that’s why I opted for graduate studies in comparative religion and theology.

      You can go to central Library Panaji if you stay in Goa and read everything on Medieval Goa, I am sure you’ll get shocked by reading what actually happened in the past with our motherland.

      This stories are usually hidden from the modern world, but i feel people should know everything.

      So forget discussing what was best, Lets create a beautiful Goa and a better place to live…

      CHEERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Alvaro Menezes said:

        Marcos! Thank god there are informed people like you. I was born in a Christian family, my distant relative is Juliao Menezes the freedom fighters but am indifferent to religion.
        What we need is an intellectual debate. There’s a friend of mine out here commenting named Adi S. He is my childhood buddy please do read some of his write ups, they make a lot of sense.

      • mentalidade said:

        At least the Portuguese who themselves were under Spain control (for the period you mentioned) gave that up long time ago.

        Unfortunately the same barbaric practices of Religion Prosecution did take place recently, in Orissa and Gujarat

      • mentalidade said:

        Did you also learned how many millions were murdered under the Thuggees and Sati?
        Do you also know that recently there were Religious Prosecutions of Muslims and Christians in Orissa and Gujarat?
        It is not all one side and you seem to be learning, Maybe you should consider learning from outside sources too?

        Anyway I do agree with your last comment that for Goa to move on, whatever that maybe in THEIR future.

    • Alvaro Menezes said:

      Most people ranting here are uninformed, so, forgive them for they know not what they speak!
      Obrigado senhorita!

  12. i always dream that if there were portugese till today ,our Goa should might have retain the same beauty as during portugese rule and many more things they might have done for Goa.current days of corruptionn we would never had to see if they were here.they ruled here for almost 451 yrs without corruption and now our govt cant even rule it for 50 yrs,every where it is corruption.Portugese did many things to us and still today they love us leaving behind us a great gift to become portugese citizen.

  13. Vinayak Prabhu said:

    Dear All Goan’s [Sorry Indian’s] – Yes, Goa is not exactly the same as it was say 50 Years back, not even close to what it was just 10-15 years back!. I am not a Goan, but visiting Goa from last 10 years, I have seen a Sea of change in the way Goan behaves and does!. It is not the rest of India decided to colonize Goa and buy all properties, It’s the greedy Goan’s sold all their properties and their soul to anyone and everyone, why blame rest of India?

  14. mike fernsndes said:

    goa was never a part of india even before the portuguese came to goa. goa was developed n n was being developed with the western world keeping in mind the people of goa deserved better. goa should have been a seperate State called Republica De Goa. after the portuguese were gone. we the true goans would have deserved better in terms of rule and law of the land if our freedom fighters were united to keep goa unique and safe from the present situation we are facing now. goa is only for the goans and all the non goans should go from goa. and we the goans should fight to preserve our goa and fight for the second refferendom to make goa a seperate State for the betterment of our future generations. we call ourself Goans in any part of the world rather being called as indians and we are known as Goans on the planet earth. we should have our seperate flag based on goan history, culture n environment. long live goa…. now its time to get up we still have time and it is our right to demand independence from currupt rule of india n bloody indians.

    • mike fernsndes said:

      we were better off with the portuguese in every sense. Damm those people who dnt believe coz they are not goans. we would have prospered.

      • I am Goan ( Goakar)I fully agree with u sir……and I love love Portugal, whenever I’ll get time to go out side India I’ll go first to Portugal.

  15. The writer of this article is very ignorant indeed. In the 50’s and 60’s her dear india was very backward too. Compare Goa of today with for example the former Portuguese colony of Macau. The government in Goa can not supply basic amenities to its population in the cities. She speaks of mining. The markets than were much smaller in comparision than that of today. Goa is being totally ravaged by the regime of 61.

  16. I AM A GOAN BUT I CONSIDER MY SELF PORTUGUESE. I SPEAK PORTUGUESE FLUENTLY FOLLOW ALL THEIR CUSTOMS TRADITIONS HAVE MY FAMILY ALL OVER PORTUGAL AND GOA ,HAVE PORTUGUESE FRIENDS WHO ARE WONDERFUL PEOPLE.I WAS BORN IN GOA BUT TOOK PORTUGUESE CITIZENSHIP AND SETTLED IN PORTUGAL.INDIA HAD NO RIGHT IN GOA !!!THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN GOA ARE BRAINWASHED THEY CONSIDER THEM SELVES INDIAN. MOHAN RANADE WAS A INDIAN TERRORIST HE SHOT DEAD A GOAN POLICE MAN IN 1954 .HE HAD NO RIGHT TO BE IN GOA .I DISLIKE GOANS WHO CALL THEMSELVES INDIAN

    • Alvaro Menezes said:

      Olá! Eu sou Alvaro Menezes, Eu falo Português. Eu sinto que pessoas como você são uma desgraça para a lusofonia. Minha língua nunca prejudicou meu patriotismo. Eu sou índio e morrem como um índio. Se você realmente quer Goa volta com Portugal, por favor, venha e tentar levá-lo de volta? Sua conversa é inútil. Em vez de falar, começar algo. Se você conseguir, eu vou te respeitar.

  17. Mackey Jones said:

    For all you pathetic converts who presume themselves to be Goans and do not want to be Indians, take a good look at yourselves in the mirror. You will find that you look like Indians, have their dark skin colour and nothing that you say or believe will erode the fact that you were local Indian population converted by the colonists for slavery. And you talk about belonging to Portugal?? That is one country that Europe wishes was not part of their continent. Cool then get lost there, leave India and dare not come back when your Portugese masters kick you out from their country. Goa belongs to India and anyone who does not want to be an Indian can get out and stay out. Talk is cheap, so why don’t you prove yourselves and show some action by leaving? With a big population that India has we are not going to miss a sub-standard, slavish and uneducated set of people like you anyways.

    • Mark Dsouza said:

      Mackey…all the best and rest…protect the folks from being raped in broad daylight and gather some notes to bribe your way in & out for anything and everthing and buy a Mercedez/Jaguar to run on Garbage strewn state of class roads dogjing decent pot holes like F1 and enjoy the hall mark of indus civilization…like a Slumdog millionare..I am too jealous of you..I wish I could join you but I am Alien now in my own land. You are right in your thinking Maggot will always like to stay where they belong..High time for Goans to move out.

      • Alvaro Menezes said:

        Your hatred is despicable. My great grand uncle did not fight for freedom so that people like you rant like pooch. You don’t like India please leave. And please do convert you words into actions. Do something, you’re all talk no cock!

    • mentalidade said:

      You are a very rude person!

      No wonder why so many Goans want you out of their land and with attitudes like yours their numbers can only go up.

      And YES Goans are different according to the UN, that means the World as a whole, therefore you are an insignificant in your opinion,

    • Mack, you’re trolling.

      Even today, Portuguese will not care about your skin color. They will care about what you do, a Portuguese person is defined by language and affinity to a culture. Take a look on our prime-minister, his family was native Goan and that is not an isolated case. My own family has people from three different continents over the past three generations (Brazil, Angola, Portugal) where the language-culture are the same. Good part of my genes are native-american and lived in other parts of the globe already, so I know what I say when mentioning that Portuguese will not care about skin color or ethnicity.

      And that thing about Europe not wanting Portugal? You’re certainly not European or else you’d know that Portugal is the oldest standing nation on this continent. Portuguese enjoy good reputation around here since about a millennia. Look up who was heading the European Union over the last decade or is heading the UN right now.

      Um abraço naquela língua que nos une.. 🙂

  18. Tony Dos santos said:

    The very fact that the Portuguese left Goa without a fight shows how much they loved us Goans. I don’t know how it was under the portuguese rule , whether Goa was better off or not. The past is the past. We are living in the present, most of you writing here have sold their properties to non Goans and run off to Portugal or to some other part of the west, leaving goa and goans in the hands of Indians. Everyone just talks and talk is cheap. If all of you really care stay back and fight to keep Goa the way you like it, don’t runaway.Goa is Goa with or without the Portuguese.

    • mentalidade said:

      The Portuguese surrendered because their army, at that time, was smaller than the current police force for the same area.

      The Governor surrounded because he wanted to prevent a massacre against the Goan population. knowing very well that he you be punished by his own dictatorship regime once he returned.

      I call that bravery, don’t you?

      On the other side of the coin, you may want to ask why India invaded Goa instead of continue pursuing the lands in dispute with both Pakistan and China?

      • Alvaro Menezes said:

        Hello am back. Here I am to counter you in certain aspects. Just as my good friend ‘Adi S’ has said that Indian identity is what we hold, you don’t seem to understand because you have never been to India. We are a proud set of people.
        1. You have asked my compatriot this, “you may want to ask why India invaded Goa instead of continue pursuing the lands in dispute with both Pakistan and China?”
        India has fought multiple wars so far, all the wars with Pakistan have been won by India. With China, PM Nehru is India’s Salazar as I see *very retarded* hence we lost our men to a war with China. You don’t seem to understand Chinese foreign policy. So please read up on Chinese FP with respect to India.
        2. You also mentioned in one particular reply to another compatriot of mine, that it was the Portuguese who stopped Sati. Well thanks a lot for outlawing sati, but ‘millions of widows’ remark? how retarded are you?
        3. Talking about barbaric practices….! Unfortunately a regime which converted thousands of Goans under the threat of murder or forcibly converting them to Christianity should not be advocating human rights and please don’t be blind to the fact that thousands of Hindus were indeed converted into Christianity by the Portuguese in Goa and my family is one of them. In short your defense has fallen face first. It’s like a preacher caught in a brothel.
        4. “The Portuguese surrendered because their army, at that time, was smaller than the current police force for the same area.
        The Governor surrounded because he wanted to prevent a massacre against the Goan population. knowing very well that he you be punished by his own dictatorship regime once he returned.”
        The attack and surrender were imminent. You cannot bully a giant and expect him to take all your nonsense. That was the beginning of the end of European Supremacy.
        5. UN is a World Body and not a World Court. Soviet veto in the matter Portuguese complaint against India rendered the resolution Void Ab Initio, it therefore is not binding. Today the entire world has recognised Goa as a part of India. Wake up and stop smoking.
        6.Portuguese barbarism are well documented. Viz. the Inquisitions of Goa. So as far as your discourse on historic crimes are concerned, your nation/regime is no angel. So zip it up.
        7. Indian society has always been multicultural and tolerant with stray instances of violence. I being a ‘Christian’ have never been discriminated in any part of India nor was ever asked to account for my presence. So you taking the credit for peaceful existence of the various ethnic communities in India esp in Goa is half baked nonsense.

        Lastly, I wonder how you feel to hear that, unlike the rest of the imperialistic powers of India viz Britain and France who left with head held high and a friend in us, you guys were booted out/kicked out/ thrown out and remember, our army is good enough to kick your sorry asses in your backyard. STOP INTERFERING IN OUR AFFAIRS.
        Thankfully your government is smarter than you. They do not interfere with our internal affairs, like its said, once bitten twice shy.

        ‘Adi S’ says a hello!

      • Mentalidade said:

        Dear Mr. Menezes

        1) You are taking things that I said out of context
        2) Quoting things I said, which I never did (PT ending Sati as an example)
        3) I already counter-debate all the points you now bring forward,
        4) I do not see any point to further debate with you since as you claim I lack brains to do so. I quote you last sentence “Thankfully your government is smarter than you.”

        I reiterate my claim once again that
        “I believe that Goans should decide their own future, whatever that may be and I wish you the best!”

  19. Vou escrever em Português pois julgo que Goa ainda sente saudosismo desta escrita, pois sempre foram considerados com dignidade quando todos pertencia-mos a um só….Viva Portugal e Viva Goa…. E acreditem, ainda vamos voltar a ser um só, uma só nação….

  20. Duke da Costa said:

    I’m Portuguese and I never seen GOA except what the history books tell us, but never met a Portuguese or Portuguese from Goa who did not like the times in which they lived under the flag of Portugal, the territory of Goa will always have in all old or new portugeses a special place in the heart, and my friends the world takes many turns and maybe one day god willing we will be united again for a homeland for the heart all Portuguese and Goenses are united. “Saudade”

  21. Santiago said:

    Goans were and will remain different from Indians. Most Indians suffer from a powerful inferiority complex and therefore find the need to try and claim Goan blood as Indian. India is a mess and they’ve made a mess out of Goa (as they have with every other region they’ve invaded). We love Portugal and always will. What happened in 1961 was a cultural genocide.

    • Johnson said:

      rofl… God give some knowledge to this guy..

    • Alvaro Menezes said:

      maybe, your identity is no-Indian, good for you! I am Indian and that’s how its gonna be.

      • Panjim & Bombay said:

        Alvaro Menezes, Porquê tens um nome português? se não sentas-te se próprio mesmo??!
        Vais mudar o seu nome! Fica sentido, porque eu acho que estás indiano em teu coração, mente e alma. Então; vai muda teu nome!!! alterar até um nome indiano completo, incluindo o nome e apelido!
        Pois, é obvioso que use o teu nome português para a tua vantagem pessoal, e usas o teu conhecimento do idioma português para derrubar o nosso Goan e nosso património Português. Você está trabalhando para o governo indiano?! Pode ser para nos reprimir Goeses ou tu estas apenas um Judas, um traidor por nós??!

  22. bernadita said:

    goa now or before what about those people who are goans but do not have anylink of goa.my grandma had left goa in 1950s and now we dont even know her birthplace. we cannot even get saome documents such as birth certificates of my father or grandparents.

  23. SUCHIT NAIK said:

    As of now today…..I suggest Goa govt. handover rules to Portugal govt.

  24. rahul nene said:

    Mackey Jones and all who think like him are my brothers and comrades . Jai HInd. Past is past.
    To all who think like Pedro even we dont like rather hate Indians who call themselves Portugese.
    Witht htis logic we will have peole calling themselves Arabic , Russian and Afghani. Kandhar was rulle dby us once upon a time . history has proof , entire pakistan was ours , we had rule in south east asia . so does it mean tamils have allegice to lanka and malaysia ?

    grow up guys !!1 take ownership if you want change , else just lead your life. all this shit about potugese just compels me to think about how many natives were slaugthered and killed during the inquisition.

    god bless
    ” the lord shows me the way “

    • Rahul,
      Nice try, buddy! But you’re wrong.. India (as it is today)was never one country ruled by one ruler/government till 1961.. And Pakistan was never ours..the area that is now Pakistan was part of what was the British colony of India , and lets not talk about Kandahar!
      Goa was never part of India , it was part of various Kingdoms ruled by dynasties of Bijapur or Vijaynagar or others ( would you call Adil Shah of Bijapur ruler of India) even the British didn’t rule it .
      The aspirations of the konkani speaking people of Goa was met with operation Vijay in 1961 and the Portuguese were forced to leave. obviously , this was not the aspirations of a large number of goans (to integrate into the cauldron called India) which this blog has made abundantly clear!
      Neither were the hyderabadis happy nor were Kashmiris should I take the liberty to count Goans with them?
      jay

      • Your knowledge in history is horrible. Unfortunately you have not researched nor would you ever make an effort to. You count yourself as a cool dude who knows just about everything. truth be said, “A genius is one who knows what he knows, and is aware of what he doesn’t know”.

        Am an Indian, my passport reads Bharat Gantantr meaning Republic of India. The term Bharat is not of recent origin. It’s as ancient as our civilization. Did you India has a 5000 year old civilization which had contacts with Egyptian civilization along with the Greeks and Romans? Congrats, now you do! So by stating that India was non-existent prior to 1947 would be utterly foolish and condemn worthy. India as it is know today, was know by many a names. Etymologically speaking, India is derived from the term Indus, Indus is derived from the term Sindhu, Sindhu is the river which is flowing through of modern day Pakistan. The Greeks could not pronounce it as Sindhu and thus called it Indus. The Turks, Persians or Muslim invaders as a whole called the river as Hindu and this country/subcontinent as Hindustan. But all along by Hindus, my motherland has always been know as Bharat. That was a free class of history.

        The area of today’s Pakistan was to be a part of Indian Union, The British Parliament differed in opinion hence 14th August 1947 marked the birth of Pakistan. Using your logic an ill-informed person would opine that Pakistan is an older nation than India. Hopefully your writings aren’t read. If they are, god save the reader’s knowledge.

        Yes, Goa was indeed ruled by Kadambas, Vijayanagar Kings, Marathas and then by the rulers of Bijapur, all of them had their kingdoms which constitute modern day India. All of them ruled their provinces under the suzerainty of the British esp the latter. Goa was not a Portuguese province to begin with. It was seized from the Sultans of Bijapur. If Adil Shah could have defended his province we wouldn’t be debating today about Goa’s destiny. A little bit of research you’d learn that British and Portuguese had a pact that Goa would be under the Portuguese unless the Portuguese mess with the British. Secondly, Goa was under the British rule twice during its history, the period of which am not being able to recall. I’ll inform you once I recall. Also the British intelligence units were well functional in Goa.

        This would surprise your knowledge, that Goan nationalism from the very outset was pro-India. Alfred Alfonso, Anthony D’Souza were the first lot among the new age freedom fighters to hoist the tri-color at tricola fort in north Goa and Ciolem in eastern Goa. Purushottam Kakodkar, Laxmikant Bhembre, Juliao Menezes, Luis Menezes Braganca, Tristao de Braganca Cunha and AVM Elric Pinto were all pro-India and these were the post world war freedom fighters with notable exception of Luis Menezes Braganca who was much older and is considered to be the Father of Goan nationalism. Did you know that under the Portuguese, Goa was under the Portuguese Colonial Act whereby people had virtually no liberty and no rights. It would be safe to say that such an era was similar to the Apartheid rule in South Africa. Goans whom I met aplenty who were born prior to 1961 told me about the untold horrors that the Portuguese put them through and their discrimination esp towards the Hindus. Also to be noted is that the Estado Novo (research what it is online, that’s your homework) was not a democracy, it was a brutal dictatorship which was ousted in 1975 by the Carnation revolution. So all Goan freedom fighters wanted to be a part of India. next time you visit Goa please go to the Menezes home in Assolna, meet Mrs. Menezes and Mrs. Lalita Menezes, they are very welcoming and would talk to you. More so also please research on Libia Lobo Sardesai, she too was a Goan freedom fighter. So Goan aspiration was to be with India, those who differed, left India. Those who aren’t Indian citizens do i have to listen to them? NO! Their opinion makes no difference in running this democracy of ours.

        Like I said, your knowledge of history is horrible. What did you do during your history class? Sleep?! In 1947 Kashmiri sentiment was to join India, Maharaja Singh, signed the instrument of accession with the Indian govt. Nehru was a fool to take the Kashmir issue to the UNO!

        What do you know about the Hyderabad struggle? What do you know about Operation Polo? The people of Andhra Pradesh wanted to be a part of India. The Nizam told Sardar Patel that Hyderabad would be independent and if the Union Govt was to make a move, the Hindus would be slaughtered. Thank me! The Hindus and the Communists of AP, created village level defence forces to eventually attack the Nizam in Hyderabad. The General of the Nizam promised to fight the incoming forces to the last man. Unfortunately when he realized that no fight is feasible, they ceded the territory to Pakistan and ran for their lives. Soon enough Indian Army took control over the territory and few weeks later Pakistan recognized Indian sovereignty over Hyderabad.

        The problem is that you speak without researching, and such a thing is termed as “cacophony”. Before you decide to disagree with me, please research further, learn more, know what you want to talk about, last but not the least read my entire write-up in its totality.

        Thanks

      • A free lesson in history nobody asked for!
        India (as we refer to our geographical mass)as a sub – continent exists not from 5000 years but probably since the evolution of Homo Sapiens (modern man) or maybe Homo Erectus!
        What I referred to was the Republic of India with a central government , a Constitution which applies to the entire country , a uniform judicial system etc. an integrated country.
        Even Mr. History know all will agree that the Indian sub continent was made up various independent principalities with their independent kings, separate laws, armies, currencies etc. hardly indicative of one country and these differences are precisely the reason so many foreigners could invade and rule over various parts of the sub continent at different times of her history.
        When the Republic of India was carved out of the British colony of India they were some dissenting voices .. Some are still resonating till today.. Most of it is fading away…but every now and then we hear murmurs.. Like in this blog.. Should we brush it under the carpet?
        Are all the Goan’s who have dissented left India? Are any of the them living in Goa today ?
        What we need is a mature debate not a history lesson.

      • A free lesson in Political science and history is not what your asked for, but its something that you need. I was not talking about the Indian landmass i was talking about Indian-ness, which was known by different terms like, Bharatiya, Hindustani etc. You missed the point, probably don’t want to get the point. I am not gonna repeat myself and waste my time.

        Coming to the aspect of laws and currency, Mughal currency was accepted in all the Muslim kingdoms even after the fall of the Mughals. Rajputs accepted Mughal currency for the purposes of trade. So yes they had an universal currency. The laws back then were limited, they were limited to Civil Laws, Criminal Laws, Family (Personal laws). Indian currency of Rupee was not exactly introduced by the British. Traditional systems and principles of Indian econimics ensured that all the kingdoms on the Indian landmass had the same value of the currency. This principle was flouted during the time of Muhammad bin Tughluq. Muslims had their separate family laws. I mean dude, at this moment the year of 2013 we don’t have a single unified family laws. Thats something the BJP is trying to push forward for complete unity. USA for example has separate laws for each of the 50 states. So what would your opinion be of the nationhood of USA? Bharat for a change had both civil and criminal laws which were derived from the divine texts so all the Hindu kingdoms had the laws similar. So your argument that the laws were not the same is not accurate.

        Indian unity is based more in the principle of Unity in Diversity, we have similar origins both religious and anthropological. We are a living example of a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-lingual society. That is the very foundation of our democracy. That feeling of unity did not being when most of you guys decided that you’ve had enough under the British. That’s something which we have it in us. Thats the reason behind Goa deciding to join the Indian Union despite certain pockets of dissent from the Catholics. Why is it that there’s hardly any dissent from Daman and Diu and you find enormous online dissent emanating from Goa? Catholic identity could be either Portuguese or Indian depending upon their mindset, whereas 90% Hindus know that we’re Indian and not Portuguese.

        Talking about the foreigners coming to India, the Turks, Persians have more or less adopted our culture. Did you know SRK is a third generation Afghan-Indian? Isn’t he as Indian as me or Virat Kohli or Swapnil Asnodkar? The Parsis, they aren’t exactly from here, but look at how they adopted Indian culture! The Bombay Jews, the Kochi Jews, the Lost Jewish Tribe of Manipur…. all are examples of how unifying the culture is.

        So, the fact is Indianess is not of recent origin, it’s an age old concept. The Republic of India might be of recent origin, but Indian-ness or Indian unity is age old, the latter matters not the former.

        You should talk to my friend Alvaro Menezes, a Goan, but a prouder Indian. I’ll bring him here for a more fruitful debate.

        Lastly about the dissent against India, if it originates outside India by non-Indians, constitutionally speaking I don’t have to listen to them cuz, their opinion would not matter. Do they vote here? NO! Do they pay taxes here? NO! We can handle our own internal matters and do not need advice or opinions of others. So I’d ask them to Shut Up!

  25. My obervation: Almost everyone here, who is complaining about India, praising Portugal and shamelesly accepting that they enjoyed a foreign rule, is a Christian. It seems their loyality lies with their religion and not with their country. Your skin color is more important that your religion. Dig deep into your family history and you will find you were something else before you were given a Portugese name.

    • Well said my friend! Am a goenkar myself and feel that we need to be more responsible in our voting pattern. I for one feel Modi would be a better candidate for PMship, whereby we sensitize him towards the developmental issues throughout the country. We need a strong leadership which is accountable to the people unlike the Congress party.
      Truth be said, corruption is rampant in India and Gomantak is no exception. Our own politicians are corrupt how can one blame Indian politicians for all this?! People are ignorant and seldom read before commenting.

  26. Johnson said:

    Wow…rightly said Ali…I agree with u..
    No one wants to improve here, talking shitty things without proper historical knowledge and praising on Portugal in every sentence…

    Truth is always bitter & hard to digest until studied well…..
    Portuguese loved Goa????
    from when??
    After the brutal conversions of Goans??
    Goa Inquisition was most merciless and cruel, which the whole world knows.

    Even our mother tongue konkani language was banned..if found speaking they were punished…

    • Hello Johnson! kaso assa? tu konkani oolayta?
      Switching back to English, it takes basic research to ascertain why did the Indian army evict the Portuguese? Answer is simple, British left, so did the French, the Portuguese had no business left here. So they were asked to leave politely, when they refused, what was the option left at hand.
      Next question is…. Were the Americans and British really mad at India for the requisition of Goa? A bit of research would suggest, that Portugal was one of the only non-democratic members of NATO and was heavily anti-USSR. Thus they would be the foot soldiers of NATO if a war did erupt with the Soviets. (Am sure none of the Pro-Portugal activists are aware of any of these facets.) So put it in simple words, USA and UK cared the least about Portugal, but they had to be appeased to kept the foot soldiers of the NATO alive. Shortly after the Liberation of Goa, USA recognized Goa as a geographic, political and cultural part of India. So did Portugal after the Carnation revolution.
      Soon after the downfall of USSR, American priorities changed, USA considers India to be a far important an ally than any of the south European nations. Indian army is 5th best in the world with an annual budget of $50b annually.

  27. Hi All,
    I’ve just returned from my maiden visit to Goa and believe me it doesn’t feel as if I have visited another state of India!
    There is a distinct difference in all things Goan the places , the monuments, and most important the people.
    Maybe it has something to do with the portuguese past .. I don’t know ..
    One remarkable observation .. Nobody speaks portuguese ! Odd considering most of you Goans(on this blog) consider themselves Portuguese ! Did the Portuguese rulers prefer Konkoni?

    • I speak Portuguese but I consider myself an Indian. Have you visited Pondicherry? you’ll feel the same. British felt imperialism can be achieved by political and economic domination, whereas Portuguese dominated politically, economically, socially and culturally. Sadly, few people still live in the state of imperialistic thought. That is exactly what people like Purushottam Kakodkar, Luis Braganca Cuha warned people against. Even more, this is funny, Portuguese Govt told the church to inform people that salvation lay in loyalty towards the Portuguese. People like Air Vice Marshal Elric Wilmot Pinto laughed it off. This is the 21st century and is the time for subalterns to speak. We have an atmosphere where, Occident has completely collapsed and is the time for us to shine, surprises me that people still have trust firmly with the west. I don’t consider the occident as an enemy, I rather feel they’re business partners and friends but at a distance. tell me what you think. cheers!

      • Mentalidade said:

        A free-counter debate for you Mr Adi S.
        If India is 5,000 years old / “landmass” or per “Indian-ness” as you claim, then by the same logic the USA+Canada is ~10,000 y old.
        But for the rest of the WORLD, the country of India or the USA or Canada for that matter, did not exist EVEN 400 y ago. So sorry!

        “Why did the Indian army evict the Portuguese?” Simple – because Goans like the Portg were fat-up with dictatorship. The Portg evicted them (without violence) and India saw an opportunity to grasp Goa.

        It’s too bad that Goa did not hanged tight for another decade. Otherwise Goa would now be independent or at the very least have special status like Quebec. Unlike China (Macau), India has neglected (rejected) Goa’s past.

        I also read comments about the atrocities during the inquisition. Remember that the inquisition was also forced on Portugal by Spain in the 16th century. No doubt they’re atrocities then by today’s standards. But was your “Indian-ness” free of atrocities?
        Donde e que tu aprendeste Portugues? Em Goa?

      • Dear MENTALIDADE!
        Minha bisavó era uma senhora Português, ela se casou em minha família contra a vontade de ela família. Agora ela está morta. Então, nós ocasionalmente falar em Português em casa. Eu falo Português, mas porque eu não tenho um sobrenome Português eu preciso para obter um certificado de competência em Português Português de Embassy em Nova Delhi. Sinceramente, não tenho tempo para isso e também não tenho interesse em imigrar para Portugal ou no Brasil ou em qualquer dos países lusófonos. Eu tenho um teclado Português no meu celular para que eu possa escrever em Português.

        Native American identity is as old as their civilization. But if you have read Political Science in University, it is an identity, culture and civilization which are some of the constituents of a state and not exactly vice versa. As far as nation building in concerned, it takes a lot of thought and ideology. Pakistan for example, was a state which was created for the purpose of looking after the Muslims of the sub-continent. Initially Jinnah wanted a separate Parliament for the Muslims in India which was outright denied by the British and INC. So he demanded for Pakistan and rest is history that we read in the books. Ideologically Pakistan started to drift apart from the very outset, their foreign policy begins and ends with India, now thankfully it has begun to change. My point is a nation cannot be built/established for the heck of it, you need a solid foundation for it. In India’s case, our Indian-ness is multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-lingual and a lot many more factors. Our history is a unifying factor. Take Spain for example, its definitely multi-ethnic and multi-lingual. Some of the languages spoken there are, Castilian, Catalan, Basque, Galician, Aragonese etc, yet they are a confederation or unitary state I don’t know about that, but they indeed are doing very well as a nation. Portuguese and Barranquenho speaking people could have been accommodated as a part of their nation, well it clearly did not happen and as I know the Spanish govt doesn’t really care about it.

        Post 1947 Portuguese had no business to remain in India. The French left in 1954 peacefully bereft and diplomatic tensions. French were smart, they knew they were militarily powerful nation and so was India and any form of armed conflict should certainly be avoided. Hence they left. Portugal, realistically speaking is nowhere close to India as far as the military strength in concerned both in 1961 and now. Portugal spends annually $4 billion for their defense whereas India spent for budget year 2012-2013 $64 billion of their budget of $100 billion. What could India have done? India had no choice left. If the Portuguese would have left peacefully Goa too would have gone the Pondicherry way peaceful, unique and unifying. So unfortunately the blame right here is on the Portuguese.

        My Indian-ness is re-iterated through the history of India. As you see there is a lot of hatred here and I do not endorse that. I would give you a challenge. Show me one country which was free of atrocities? Indians faced a lot from the Muslims and the imperialists. We have steadily been re-building our nation and coming to terms and accepting our multicultural identity. Every country faces problems of its own. Some talk about it, certain others are discreet like the Chinese. My Indian-ness is also for the fact that ethnically I am an Indian in redneck lingo am a ‘brown bastard’ and I am proud of it. Honestly, Goa is irreversibly part of India. Portuguese aren’t coming back. NO THEY AREN’T!

  28. Jack A. said:

    How Goa part of Portugal? it is not even in Iberia or Europe.

    • mentalidade said:

      The key word is “was”.
      For instances the Falklands do belong to England and are not in Europe

      On the flip side just because a country is next to another does not mean they have rights to it neither. Dozens of examples you can pick

  29. Only 3 province i.e. Salcette, Bardes and Tiswadi were under Portuguese rule in 16th century.That was the time they converted Hindus and Moors enmass keeping their casts intact. Only in Goa Catholics are divided in to Bramin ,Chardo (Ksyatriya) and Shudras. Almost all Brahmins and some rich Chardos adopted Portuguese culture.Even then they were not treated at par with pure Portuguese or even Indo-Portuguise called mistize. Unlike England Portuguise never was a cultured country. That is why they have not left any impact in our culture. Most of the Catholics even today maintain they Hindu linkage deep in their heart.Those migrated to Portugal are now realizing
    their mistake..

    • mentalidade said:

      This statement along demolishes your credibility regarding your knowledge of Portugal
      “Unlike England Portuguise never was a cultured country.”

      Fact- it was a Portuguese Queen who introduced England to their famous 5 o’clock tea
      Fact – most Europeans royal courts had Portuguese doctors
      Why would an “uncivilized” Portugal give Goans full citizenship status?

      Please don’t be so ridiculous to attack a proud nation knowing zilch about them.

  30. mentalidade said:

    First of all, as a Portuguese, I believe that Goans should decide their own future, whatever that may be and I wish you the best!

    I read a lot of comments that Portugal tried to eradicate all non-Christians from Goa, giving the impression that they were absolute barbarians in the past.

    I am shocked that some feel so free to accuse Portugal without reflecting on your own past! I am shocked that some feel so free to accuse Portugal without reflecting on your practices even within this decade!

    Really, either we compare both pasts or move on!

    Second of all, if Portugal’s goal was to eradicate all non-Christians from Goa, my question is very simple, how come in 1960 most Goans were actually Muslims and Hindus?
    There are only 2 possible answers:
    1) these claims are 100% bogus
    or
    2) all Goans were Christians in 1960
    There is no other choice otherwise it is a non-sequitur.

    History proves that in Goa, Christians, Muslims and Hindus lived in harmony for the most part. The same also applied in Macau.
    Please feel free to argue your future but keep Portugal out of it.

    • Why you keep bringing macau into this? Your claims that Goa should have a say in its independence is impractical because every state in India is quite unique. They have their own language, their own cuisine, their own festivals, sometimes their own religion but they are all connected to together by the cultural backdrop of India. Goa was always culturally part of the indosphere. So the imperialists come and take over and you want to have a choice of belonging to them? Sounds like a serious case of Stockholm syndrome.

      Besides this was the most peaceful of all the other portuguese decolonizations. So you should be proud of what India did.

      Muslims, Christians, Turks Mongols etc have been coming to India and invading it and looting it for its riches but India is the only place that hasn’t fully given into the invaders’ culture unlike central asia, europe, africa and americas. But that does’t mean there weren’t any forceful conversions, dehumanizing of local people and violence. Oh there was tons of violence and injustice. Its just that the portuguese, english, french, dutch, muslims were largely unsuccessful in converting them here and that is why you see hindus majority in Goa in 1960.

      If you are going to bring in China then why not do it logically. Tibet also wants right to choose independence and look what china is doing to Tibet. Atleast you dont see the Indian govt marching into Goa and destroying your culture in the open. You can’t just pick and choose what you want and make a case out of it because then no one will take you seriously.

      • Mentalidade said:

        Your statement is full of contradictions and errors

        1- “Goa should have a say in its independence is impractical because every state in India is quite unique.” Switzerland, amongst many, many others, blows your theory right out

        2- “connected to together by the cultural backdrop of India” – illogical given that India is barely 100 tears old. Otherwise Canada+USA should also be one country or if you prefer Pakistan+India then should also be one country

        3-“Goa was always culturally part of the indosphere.” – you mean part of the India’s sub-continent? By your logic then USA+Canada should also be one country

        4-“So the imperialists come and take over” – it looks like India is the new “imperialist”.

        5-“Besides this was the most peaceful of all the other portuguese decolonizations” = NEGATIVE! I might agree with “peaceful invasion” as in the least amount of damageSo

        6-“you should be proud of what India did. ” – don’t sell it to me, do sell it to the Goans in this blog. plus other ones and videos too. Let’s face it if India did a favor to Goa then you would DEFINITELY NOT see any complains here (and other places too)

        7-“Muslims, Christians, Turks Mongols etc have been coming to India and invading it” – you mean they came to India’s SUB-CONTINENT? India did NOT exist then -period

        8-“But that does’t mean there weren’t any forceful conversions, dehumanizing of local people and violence.” No doubt you are talking about the RECENT murders by Hindus in in Orissa, Gujarat and other places

        9-“unsuccessful in converting them here ” India should have no problem to convert Goa after all you are the 2nd most populous nation on Earth an wasted no time to immediately move-in in large flocks

        10-“that is why you see hindus majority in Goa in 1960.” that proves without a doubt that Portugal even UNDER A DICTATORSHIP was very TOLERANT of other religions! The same is also true for other locations as well.

        11-“If you are going to bring in China then why not do it logically.” for sure. According to the CIA and UN, since India became a nation, it has land conflicts (some very dangerous) with Pakistan, China, Indonesia, Nepal, Bangladesh (who else?) – logically India has become the new colonizer imperialist -otherwise it would get along with its various neighbors

        12-“Atleast you dont see the Indian govt marching into Goa” well, a few Goans here disagree with that. I would also argue that India invaded Sikkim and tried to invade a few dozen places in the North but were repelled by China and Pakistan.

        13-“destroying your culture” – I see a major difference between how China and India treat Macau and Goa/Damao/Dio respectively. I do KNOW that India recently expulsed all Portuguese speaking agencies. I do know that the recent Lusofone Games in Goa were in English. Ironic given that Luso = Portuguese, YET Portuguese is not allowed!

        Look here, for every argument you have so do I. Here is the deal, respect my culture and I will respect yours and best wishes to Goa and India too as one or two.

        I am tired of arguing with the so called “freedom fighters” because seriously all they are doing is fighting Goa’s freedom!

    • Jocjabes said:

      You are picking examples that carry no weight only to support your point.

      1. So if switzerland is independent then you think Goa should be independent country? Where do you find the logic to make the connections and to imply that they went through the same history? You are deluded. Switzerland was never colonized by indians so when switzerland is colonized by indians then you can use that as an example. Idiot!

      2. So the word “india” to you is enough to prove that its only a country after it is named. For your information even the word China is of Sanskrit Origin. Does that mean that China was not a country before it was named a country? So the cultures, traditions, languages, sports, religions, literature are irrelevant because it is not an independent country even though it was invaded and occupied by european barbarians. And you comparing goa in india to CAnada and USA? whats the matter with you….canada and usa used to both british colonies and look what they both did to the native american population when they got there. Atleast Goans do not nearly have the same fate. A better example is why is Quebec in Canada not separating? Its because they are still CANADIAN! You have such irrational logic dumbass.

      3. Pakistan and Bangladesh were historically part of the indian subcontinent but because of the intolerance of the muslims and their paranoia they wanted to separate. In the ensuing violence millions of people died from both sides. I mean if you want to compare yourself to the logic of the partitionists and support that kind of consequence with potentially many lives lost then you are utterly stupid and devoid of any logical forethought. Because while comparing to that situation that is exactly what will ensue. And are you saying you are okay with many people dying just to support your imperialist notions?

      4. How is India imperialist in any sense? Its the only nation that gave freedom to 500 million ppl through largely peaceful means. Read about Satyagraha! And thats why you dont see any nation in war happy, imperialist europe speaking hindi because they never ever invaded to impose their own culture on foreigners. Your hate for india is clearly evident here and you obviously cannot debate this subject without bias. In fact it is the only large country in the world that has bequeathed land like pakistand and bangladesh based on religous grounds while China has taken over tibet so violently and is always pointing guns at Taiwan.

      5. Of course its peaceful because not a single death happened in the military occupation. Why dont you read about it…compared it with the decolonizations in africa, PNG etc etc. Hence the most Peaceful by logic!

      6. Read number 5. India is still a developing country and the same problems you find in goa you will find in alot of other states. Although I agree things happen at a lot slower pace due to democracy, bureaucracy and corruption. You have to stop viewing India through western eyes. Im curious have you ever been to Goa?

      7. Just because a country is not named doesn’t mean ppl’s culture and what they produced are irrelevant. So you think no ppl were living in goa as hindus or buddhists? Now you are just fighting with semantics because you have no argument.

      8. Oh now you are picking and chosing. Ok well i can pick hundreds of examples when muslims came and beheaded indians and how there are many religious riots even in western countries…most recently how immigrants are always targeted in greece and even in portugal. So stop making this an indian only issue. Obviously the ppl of india have endured many fatalities at the hands of foreigners especially when so many hindus have been actively targeted in pakistan, bangladesh and afghanistan.

      11. What the blaze are you talking about? You think CHina doesan’t have any land conflicts? It has conflicts with so many neighbours and infact it is only escalating while India is taking a passive stance. And why would India have land conflicts with Indonesia???? You are off your rockers and i dont htink it has any huge land conflict with Nepal. Atleast it didn’t send forces to take over nepal like China did with Tibet! This is a case of you hating India so much that you would side with the worst offenders just because they disagree with india too.

      12. Stop using Sikkim as an excuse without fully understanding the situation. Sikkim was a tributary of India and it wsa to be responsible for the defences. India only moved in because chinese were the aggressors. Again China Invaded India! When it comes to india you always seem to blame the victim….really you do have a case of stockholm syndrome. And again integration of Sikkim was largely peaceful you warmonger.

      13. Those things you talked about are done at the state level so bringing in the federal government. So you have to look at whats really the motive. Perhaps some goans dont like the portuguese. Its their choice and are you not going to respect their choice? AFter decolonization ppl are free to move around all over india to find work and live happy. Its the same shit that happens in the EU after an eastern european country joins. This is normal consequence. Again with the China comparison. Do you know how many hans the chinese state has actively funded for emigration into tibet and xianjang? And the only reason macau is different is because its a casino city like las vegas so it has special privileges. Macau makes China a lot of money so common sense dictates its not going to change macau while tibet and xianjang dont make money for it.

      Your so called arguments are irrational and filled with diatribes against india with no academic insight. Please put aside your emotions and learn to debate logically and if you are going to compare dont pick and chose like a gun toting bible thumping republican.

      • Jocjabes said:

        I stand corrected. I meant east timor and not PNG and yes there were some casualties (around 55) when india decolonized goa. But thankfully no war broke out like in brazil, angola, mozambique, east timor etc.

      • Mentalidade said:

        1) My point was that Goans and Goans alone should have decided the faith of Goa,

        2) You are confusing the name “India” with “India Sub-continent (very old)”. The country called India is barely 100 years old, therefore it is impossible for something that young to claim something else that is much older -unless by invasion. The rest of the world happens to think the same.
        Using your logic then (sub-continent), who claims whom in regards to USA and Canada?

        3)”Pakistan and Bangladesh were historically part of the indian subcontinent but because of the intolerance of the muslims and their paranoia they wanted to separate.” I interpret that as Pakistan and Bangladesh belong to India as Goa does. Maybe you can pull a Mr Kaul, liberate them of the “paranoid Muslims” and then relocate there in masses, like you did in Goa!
        Anyway – there is NO such thing as “Indosphere”. There is an India (100yold) there is a Pakistan and there is a Bangladesh. who share the same sub-continent.
        You cannot claim everything just because it has an “India” suffix to it! What it’s next, are you going to claim Europe too? After all their languages is partially Indo based too

        4) Invading someone else’s place is – yes the new imperialists.

        5) I agree, India to Goa was a “Peaceful invasion” – emphasis on “invasion”

        6) Mr Kaul “promised” to free Goa. Odd why many Goans fell everything but free.
        Maybe the so called “freedom fighters” were fighting Goa’s freedom then?

        7) If India was a country 500 years ago then so was Canada and the list is endless.

        8) I don’t know force is force be it 400 years ago or just recently. I do know this, most progressive countries have given up on atrocities based on religion

        11) all based on CIA reports like I said. Argue with them.

        12) Based on her Highness book (American born and raised) that India destroyed her new country’s sovereignty. I may not completely “understand” but I do see a pattern,

        13) “Perhaps some goans dont like the portuguese.” Perhaps you’re right and perhaps you’re wrong. No doubt your “some” would definitely have to be the majority.
        Anyway, I see lots of “Viva Goa and Viva Portugal”, but not enought to have Lusophone language in Lusophone games.
        Well, only a Lusophone place can have Lusophone games. So what you are suggesting then is that a Lusophone place invited other Lusophone nations but forbids the Lusophone language? Oxymoron!

        Right! And your arguments are very rational. Goa always belonged to India because India is thousands of years old and apparently so does Pakistan and Bangladesh.
        The problems that India had/has was/is always the fault of China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Portugal or others. I got it now!

      • Do you consider the Portuguese colonisers/ aggressors ? Are they indigenous people of Goa ? How can you compare Pakistan and Bangladesh to Goa? Pakistan and Bangladesh were created out of local aspirations.. Since I am not a local Goan and it appears that you are..was there an overwhelming /majority opinion in favour of Portuguese rule as opposed to joining the Republic of India? I believe that if that were the case the present status would not have been possible.. The World at large would not accept India if they were the aggressors in this case.
        They would rather be looked at like the World looks at China ..(Tibet)

      • Jocjabes said:

        Nobody in the world likes to be colonized and forced upon especially by a foreigner! Goa is no exception. Goa was always part of Indian empires from the beginnings of maurya and has been governed by local people except when the europeans came. Doesn’t that tell you something?

        400 years ago or even 300 years there were no such thing as countries except for empires, kingdoms and colonies. Countries are a fairly new thing and for you to base argument on that means you are completely ignoring the history of the past.

        By your sense then the native americans in North Americans should have a vote on their sovereignty as they were here for thousands of years before the europeans came in North America. Same goes with Tibet and tibet was never really part of “China”, even though macau was before the europeans.

      • Mentalidade said:

        “400 years ago or even 300 years there were no such thing as countries except for empires, kingdoms and colonies. Countries are a fairly new thing”

        I suggest that if you want to be viewed as a credible source, be sure of your facts. Look up Portugal or Greece, for example.

      • Jocjabes said:

        Coming from the person who is nitpicking about India while glorifying china on its deeds that you are biased towards. Before you even begin to whisper about credibility you need to learn about neutrality.

  31. Alvaro Menezes said:

    Certain of my comments might be offensive to certain people. I profusely apologize.

  32. Alvaro Menezes said:

    I by no means called all the people of Delhi as rapists. I was pointing out the fact that the Cause of Action in the case of Ram Singh v. State of Delhi arose. Ram Singh committed suicide and the rest excepting for one guy have been sentenced to death. i was pointing out at this. Please take no offence friends. I love my India and would strive to make it the safest and the best place to live in.
    Mera Bharat Mahan!

  33. Hi Guys
    I’m from South Africa and I’m of Portuguese descent. I find it fascinating to see so many people debate the merits or not of Portuguese colonization in Goa. I find it interesting that you use today’s standards in measuring what was acceptable behavior for the Portuguese over a 500 year period. The Colonizer irrespective of the country they came from is there to exploit the resources of the colony. Portugal, France, British etc. were in India to exploit the resources and the people of the region. To say otherwise would be foolish.
    It is a great pity that Portuguese has no official status in Goa. India chose English, as one of the official languages of India and other regional languages for the many states that make up India today. It could have done the same for Goa, chosen Portuguese and one or more local languages spoken in Goa. I believe it was a missed opportunity by the Indian government. India would have had a competitive edge in doing business with the nine countries that have Portuguese as an official language.
    Chine has wasted no time in strengthening the Portuguese language in Macau. The only reason this was done was to strengthen Chinese ties with the Portuguese speaking countries. The Chinese ignored the controversies in doing this and made the decision purely for business reasons.
    India should think about how Goa could be utilized to there advantage…….

  34. I’m a portuguese only connected to Goa by friends i have in Portugal of Goan descent. I must say that Portugal and the portuguese suffered as much as Goans with the inquisition. Also Portuguese people were fed up with their dictator and the colonial wars. Nobody in Portugal wants to colonize anything but everyone is really proud to have places in the world where among bad things .. Good things were also done. The feeling is of brothers.

  35. Daydreaming is not good. It will not come to reality. Goa was an integral part of India having similar culture and traditions like other part of the country. Dutch, French and British were also occupying Indian territory but in course of time, they had to go. But this was not the case of Portuguese India (Goa) and hence they have been removed forcibly. They were also forced to leave Latin America, Africa and South East Asia in course of time.

    Except with few different opinions, the Goa is prospering. Even after 450 years rule of Invaders, majority of Goan people maintained their culture, traditions, religion and language and that is the reason why there are no signs of Portuguese language in Goa.

    Portugal had to take bail out from European Union to avoid the bankruptcy very recently but there is no situation in India.

    • Mentalidade said:

      “Goa was an integral part of India having similar culture and traditions” = 1) illogical given that India did NOT exist then 2) = illogical cause otherwise Pakistan should also belong to India. 3) = illogical by same logic then USA+Canada should also be the same country.

      “and hence they have been removed forcibly.” 1) the truth is that India was having problems with its Northern neighbors (wars with China) and needed a new excuse to distract from those problems, so it invade a place with an army smaller than today’s police presence for same area. 2) Kaul lied by stating India “liberate them”. (Liberating forces don’t remain behind and then occupy in swarms) 3) India also tried to invade and occupy a few other local areas as well. Hence extreme tensions primarily with China and Pakistan, but by no means the only ones. 4) India NEVER took a referendum to determine the wishes of the majority – it simply occupied it in swarms
      Ps Gandhi had NO problem with Goa! Didn’t he also preach “Peace”?

      “They were also forced to leave Latin America” = NEGATIVE and Absurd too!
      “South East Asia” = also NEGATIVE! In fact East Timor is a free country today thanks to the millions, that’s right millions of Portuguese who protested vigorously for their independence and the atrocities they were suffering at the ends of Indonesia.
      “Africa” = NEGATIVE as well. Portugal kicked out the dictatorship and the new government automatically granted independence to all nations in Africa. Too bad Goa did not hang on for another decade or so, hum?
      Ps Portugal also had NO problems with China in regards to Macau. How’s your relationship with them?

      “Portugal had to take bail out from European Union to avoid the bankruptcy” out of topic, but nonetheless, yes Portugal currently has a temporary hole in their pockets, BUT the situation it is also now gradually improving. By the way did you know that Portugal’s personal GNP is still actually higher than India’s? (meaning, there are more poor people in India than in Portugal both by actual numbers and by percentage as well)

      “but there is no situation in India” what exactly does that mean? Most Indians are rich?

      Given these names Jammu, Kashmir, Azad, Aksai Chin, Junagadh, Kalapani, River Sikkim – I wonder if India has now become a new version of “colonizers”? You know take what you can (if you can like Sikkim), occupy in swarms and then take votes?

  36. HI All,
    Changing names would not make you as different Nationals. I have been to Lisbon
    & worked with Portuguese. One thing they hate is our colour, can you change it? Jesus project as White man has no respect from Black African man who has no food to eat even in a country that is Catholic. If you all go by your roots , religion has no meaning, just a identity of your security that may be minority or majority. Same goes with Islam, if you go to Mecca on paper has no differentiation in races but a big divide in original Muslim & converted.
    Good nations are not created by colonist bur made by sacrifices of people from colonies.
    I have seen the suffering of Portuguese & there population is going down day by day due to atrocities (Karma)& they are importing people from colonies to serve them with the jobs & live on the taxes they pay. The freedom what you can achieve in your country will never be given by colonist who think you are beggars working for poorest European nation. Go Portugal & have good experience, you cannot even eat bread free of cost.
    People pls. grow up & stop hating your country, whatever you are in. Don’t be nostalgic & work out in presence to shape up the future. If you think colonist were better off is because you worked with fear to keep your houses clean, but now no fear & create shit every where.
    If same amount of fear will exist then only clean environment can be created. Learn from Singapore, Dubai & Mauritius where same Indians are there.

    • Mentalidade said:

      “One thing they hate is our colour” hogwash!
      Portugal is one of the least racist nation on Earth, according to UN Human Rights and WHO.
      So i stopped there knowing full well the rest is just rhetoric garbage.

      • the poster “mental case” has some serious mental issues to sort out.

        1. nation state is a new concept and does not date back hundreds of years.it came relatively new to asia .Expelling the imperial power one by one is an integral part of the process.
        goa was one such case in the long process of resurrection of modern india.

        Portugal and Greece ,that this ignorant dumbass thinks, were not nation states back 300 or 400 years ago.

        2. portugal was one of the most barbaric imperial powers that would put present day Nazi Germany to same.both spain and Portugal committed the worst genocide of indigenous people in south america.

        3. Portugal was run under the fascist regime of salazer for decades.india has never produced anywhere clsoe to such an uncivlized regime..

        3.“Goa should have a say in its independence.” – can this ignoramus produce proof that all provinces of spain and portugal voted to join these countries with the people’s full consent? for that matter USA ,uk?

        we are talking about a lunatic here with no clue.

        goa is run with the full participation of goans in govt and various spheres of life.

        in other words, the question of goan accession is undisputed.so there is no need.

        infact the accession would not have taken place without consultations with goan representations.

        A few lunatics and imperial powers do not count.

        4.this “mental case” talks about land disputes with neighbours as its a fault of one side and talks about “invasion”. the fact is there has been no invasion from the indian side of any neighbouring land.

        when indian army fought in east Pakistan,maldives ,SL, they were done with the full consent of the local heroes.

        5. junagadh,hyderabad,kashmir are all indian land where Pakistan is indulged in trouble making..no apologies for expelling self serving nizams and predatory paks.

        6.sikkim- this mental case in its infinite stupidity quotes someone from the monarchy….the monarchy was precisely the problem…

        7. china did win localised border war….this mental case must learn its a border war.not a full scale one…Pakistan never accomplished anything meaningful in all its wars

        best wishes to the third rate puny state of portugal@ rofl!

  37. LOL @ all the HINDU DOGS who think India is ever going to be accepted in the world. You people think the world is oblivious to the shit that’s stuck to you guys but they’re not. And the CHRISTIANS in India join the long list of enemies you hindus have made – who have you murderers not killed ? Muslims – check, Sikhs – check, Buddhists – check, your own people and your own girl children 0- CHECK. So dream on psychotic hindu dogs 🙂

  38. Ugh! Troll-Alert for most comments above..

    Most seem to have the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response. And as is the case everywhere on the internet, anonimity is giving all our folks, the ability to express “the worst side of human nature”. (You know what I mean.. Unparliamentary stuff like dogs n bast@rds… Tut.. Tut.. Very bad language. And unnecessary filth)

    My snide remark apart, I think that a lot of young and senior people commenting on this blog-post view the past with rose tinted glasses. And that, my dear blogger is most tiresome!

  39. Goa was better under Portuguese rule… non goan’s will never understand this because they were ruled under the British…… non goan’s why are you bothering to comment here…..
    I was curious to know our why we love Portuguese. every evening one old man (Hindu) goes for cycling .. they all senior citizens sit and chat near the cross in our village n while greeting they greet like viva Portuguese etc. so i curious to know so I researched …with may dad ( he ws born during Portuguese rule) uncles n mostly all senior citizens in my villiage. they feel we are cheated by Indian govt. n forcefully took control over our land against our wish. before there was communal harmony .. everyone was living in peace… look at the crime rate increasing day by day….we are strangers in our own land ….

  40. Well, I am a Goan & I say that there is a shift in the power which is being frowned by ones who were enjoying during colonial rule. Please be democratic and accept immigration which is normal for all the sates in India & all the countries in the world.

  41. Let’s start a movement to give the Portuguese language at least co-official status with Konkani. Seriously. All change and progress stems from an idea. India would benefit from this as they would have a linguistic advantage in economic dealings with all of the Portuguese speaking countries/regions known as CPLP. Even the president of Equatorial Guinea has made Portuguese the 3rd official language there. He recognized the advantage of having economic/trade ties with the Lusophone world.

  42. Daman singh said:

    After going through the comment section i just felt like adding a point or two . Though i have no or very less knowledge about goan history . So i may relate the same issue to my own background . I see most of the pro portugese people here are of the belief that “if” goa was under portugese rule this would have happened and that would not have happened . Firstly you whether to your intrest or not are an indian and it would be the same way whether you like it or not .Now i as u would have guessed by my name , am a sikh punjabi guy living in delhi . Though i was to fasinated and pushed by the refrences you guys put us through -rapist , loud , cold .. Next time any of you coming to delhi ; meet me up and i will break your stereotype surfaced inagination . Now comming back to my point ;Father was born i delhi , grandfather migrated from peshawar(now pakistan) during partation . Many of my relatives live in punjab(india) . Now my point is to all the pro portugese people . Most of you are young men just like me (or that is what im assuming ). My grandfather migrated from peshawar (his homeland to delhi) against his will , he always felt that partation should not have happened . Regardless of what my roots are , i today am a proud indian . History of what you assume can be like a bone in a dog’s throat , he can cough it out easily but he will not . Get over it guys , goa was india before the portugese came in and now it is india again after they have left . Do not dare touch the kingpins of a separate state . You do not know what we punjabis have gone through in punjab . You guys still talk of freedom , we guys have tried taking it from the government in the 80″s and belive me you it was really not worth it . If you think over it -we indians are so diverse , so be it if you hate me bro .. Goa is as much your responsibility as it is of the hindu goans . Why is that i only see catholics bringing up the topic of the portugese legacy . You guys consider it your legasy because your forefathers converted ..

  43. You see, the Portuguese a very different than Anglos. The Portuguese inter-mixed with the women in all of their former colonies. They were more tolerant of other races compared to the British, and even the Spanish I might add. There was no mass genocide of the natives in Brazil, but there was in Spanish America for example. The Portuguese generally get along well with other cultures and races. The children of those mixed relations were accepted by the Portuguese colonists as their legitimate children. This was generally not the case with other European colonists i.e., British, Spanish, French, etc. The Portuguese colonialists were generally tolerant and fair. Does anyone think it a coincidence that such a small European country as Portugal hung on to so much of their empire? The Portuguese empire spanned the globe, and to this day the Portuguese language is spoken officially in 9 countries/regions on 5 continents. If the Portuguese colonists were so bad then how did this happen? Does anyone no think that maybe the Portuguese were not so terrible after all compared to other European powers of the time? Some great things that the Portuguese left in their former colonies are many: a beautiful and rich language, beautiful architecture, great cuisine, music, culture, infrastructure, and solid social and legal institutions, which remain in those former colonies to this day. Brazil is one excellent example. Brazil could be a world power today if it wasn’t because of the corruption of the politicians, as in the case of modern day Goa, and all of the former Portuguese colonies. Those problems are not the fault of Portugal. There is a specialness one feels in the former Portuguese colonies.

  44. I agree with Joaquim. In former Portuguese colonies such as Angola, Mozambique, an official language other than Portuguese could have been chosen. But, the language of their so called Portuguese ‘oppressors’ was kept officially, to the extent that Portuguese is currently not only the official language of Angola, but also the NATIONAL language. Portuguese is spoken fluently by 80% of the Angolan citizens, if not more. Today, most Angolans love the Portuguese language and culture, and Strongly identify with all of the CPLP countries particularly Portugal and Brazil.

  45. Alves de Faria said:

    I just found this page.
    I’m Portuguese with no direct family connections to Goa.
    I never thought about Goa being a colony of Portugal but part of Portugal itself, that is why in Portugal we think Goans are Portuguese no mater what.
    To Goans should be granted the self determination right as it happened in Timor Lorosae.

    To the Goans: Vocês nunca foram esquecidos. Um forte abraço de Portugal. 🙂

    • I have already given up my Indian citizenship and taken Portuguese.

      • good riddance

      • Panjim & Bombay said:

        Caro Hashman,
        PARABÉNS!!! You have a new, happy bright and healthy future ahead!

        To qwerty, to bad rubbish.
        India is going from rubbish dump to sewer.
        Such a pity; it used to be so culturally diverse and rich in spirituality.
        Now all it has is hindu extreemism and brutality, rapes, beatings, torture and corruption.
        No wonder why so many indians want to leave india!!!

  46. Do you see what I mean? Unlike the English or Spanish who say that the natives of their former colonies are beneath them, the Portuguese fully accept the natives of their former colonies today as Portuguese brothers. We don’t look down on the East Timorese, Goans, Malaysians, Macanese, and all the others. We still even see Brazilians as our brothers and they have been an independent nation since 1822 – but 75% of Brazilians today have some Portuguese ancestry. The CPLP is very stable and gaining in strength for the very reason that the members of the Portuguese speaking countries feel a brotherhood with one another, a special Luso feeling. Even other countries in the world want to be a part of it. Equatorial Guinea is one that just joined, Galicia will be next, then Senegal, Morocco, Philippines (after all the discoverer Fernao de Magalhaes was Portuguese), etc, etc. Many, many nations, regions in the world were influenced in some way, shape or form by the Portuguese, and now they are coming back into the fold, out of their own free will ! Even Australia wants in on the action!!

  47. I am a Goan and i love Goa….. i feel Portuguese people were much better ruling Goa.

  48. The damn two-faced Americans and British did not life a finger to help Portugal keep Goa. Support from those countries could have changed everything.

  49. Mentallidade said:

    Joaquim
    Thanks for your kind words.
    You are absolutely right, it was impossible for a country with a population smaller than a very small city (~ 1milion) to have survived if they resorted to oppression.
    I think it all stems from the fact that pretty much any info available, makes the dreadful assumption that Portugal and Spain were/are the same. Let me tell you that is the furthest thing from the truth.

    There is a culture in Malaysia that to my surprise keeps their Portuguese roots intact, to this day. It was a surprise given that the Portuguese were replaced by the English and Dutch, 400 years ago.

    Portugal is a very tolerant nation as many have said so here. Goans were full pledged citizens and so are their Indian kids even to this day.
    Portugal has the only statue of a Black man in whole of Europe and when he died, the whole country was in shock and in official morning for 3 days. He was also buried on a cemetery reserved for heroes. His name of course was the great Pantera Negra, aka Eusebio, he was a full pledged Portuguese citizen born in Mozambique.

    Portugal not only had Black players in the national team, but so was the captain, at a time when most other countries wouldn’t even think of it.

    Anyway, best wishes to Goa, Damao, Diu and India too.
    No Portugal does not want Goa back. It would be nice if India recognized Goa/Damao/Diu for its uniqueness.

  50. There is a Portuguese cultural/linguistic renaissance going on in Goa these days. Most Goans would love to see the Portuguese language have a stronger presence there, not only the Christian Goans, but all Goans. There are currently a few Portuguese language schools and this is a good start. The younger Goans love the Portuguese culture, and are very much in sync with Portuguese/Brazilian/Portuguese African sports, music, news, etc. You can feel a strong resurgence of all things Portuguese in Goa. I’m Goan and I strongly feel based on what I see and hear that the Portuguese language will, in the near future, be given at least co-official language status in Goa. Goans are all too aware that mastery of Portuguese will benefit Goa in so many ways especially economically. They realize that close ties to CPLP (Community of Portuguese Speaking Countries) is a huge advantage on the global stage. Goa, Macau and East Timor are the Asian/Luso economic Triangle, and the gateway to the rest of the enormous Portuguese speaking world.

    • Agree with you Tiago.

      I wish for the day to see goa become a part of Portugal again, or at least independent from India.

    • only goan christians are enamored by portueguese, have a hindu who was present during the inquisition tell you tales about portugal how the so called kokanes were brutally abused did you even know that our original script was destroyed by the portueguese thats why konkani uses kannadi, roman and devnagri do u have not one ounce of pride faggot

      • Panjim & Bombay said:

        querty, ~
        your backward, extremely offensive and discriminatory vocabulary only further emphasises the polarisation that is the result of Indians destroying western-minded localities and cultures
        And the gulf continues to grow even wider, as India continues to isolate herself by degrading and dissmanteling anything, any culture, religion, or anyone that is not hindu.

        You have served to us all an example of the traditional backward indian mentality.
        I forsee the ressurrection of yet another extremist nation rearing its ugly head.

  51. in the same manner india was better during the raj,many indians even today believe that, but i think they all are missing one important point…..i.e. we r free,with all our poverty and corruption etc we r free ,even for the condition which we are today in ,its only us who is responsible, we decide our fate.

    • That’s a perfect reply. Anyway the people who are saying Portugal was better they dont know about Goa Inquisition or exodus of Hindus from Goa who did not convert. Which made them Christian which is why they are feeling now they are “separate” from rest of Indians.

      Goa was ruled by Bijapur Sultanate when Portuguese took it. So if rest of Bijapur Sultanate can be now part of India then why Goa cant be? Certainly India did not exist as nation but India always existed as a civilization. Even Megasthenes said this country as a separate country. Indian people’s lack of knowledge is truly astonishing. Or may remind of Richard Dawkins or SAB by Steve Wells?

  52. That Goan Guy said:

    The Portuguese sycophants might do well to note that they do not have 1% Portuguese blood in them. It is high time they accepted reality that they were brainwashed into thinking they were considered on par with their Portuguese Masters. Wakey wakey time guys.

    • Yes, clearly brainwashed. Just like as Pakistanis say they were not Indians(forget Partition of India!!!) but they were Arabs, Iranians or Central Asians etc. It is same. Brainwashed people.

    • having foreign blood in them would just make them illegitimate descendants of illegitimate ancestors i think there was a word starting with b for them in english what was it again////

    • Panjim & Bombay said:

      MMNN estas errado! I know enough goan portuguese and they have at least 50% portuguese blood coursing through their veins. Are you envious??!

      • that goan boy said:

        Panjim & Bombay

        Historian C. R. Boxer says

        “Nothing is more erroneous than the common perception that all Goans have a considerable dose of Portuguese blood in their veins. The great majority are ethnically Indians, though their centuries-old adoption of the Roman Catholic religion, and of the Portuguese language and mores, together with their assumption of Portuguese names, have firmly ingrained them in the Portuguese cultural orbit.”

    • Panjim & Bombay said:

      to that goan guy,
      estas errado! I know enough goan portuguese and they have at least 50% portuguese blood coursing through their veins. Are you envious??!

  53. That Goan Boy said:

    You will find these brainwashed Portu guys all over the social media in an Goan forum. The same group of diehard Portu fans. They have some standard questions adn gissa pita replies …my fave being ” india did not exist before 1947″ The only way to make them understand is to kick butt. The best part is all these Portu lovers, most of them, have already opted for other nationalities.

    • Haha India is not in good hands being ruled by Indians. You stupid indian. 🙂

      • That Goan Boy said:

        Hashman, Today the world is talking about the development in India. So Shush!

      • Let’s talk about the poverty, violence and rampant corruption along with the bigotry

      • dear MR HASHMAN india is much better than ur so called portugal except for germany and to some extent france EU is in an economic rut. India is still developing hence the corruption etc btw the flashy infrastructure those robbers boast are all our treasures robbed from our forefathers read your history failure. and sonny boy povery and violence is still there in usa and every country in the world the economic miracle we have created is better than licking the shoes of the west just look at what hapened to pakistan

      • Panjim & Bombay said:

        Oh, but querty, India is turning into an extremist state, all the signs are there – you are turning into another, albeit much, much larger Pakistan!!!

  54. its all bcoz of portu fanatics like this goa is starting to fall behind in development compared to other states like gujarat and tamil nadu all the youth is leaving goa and people from other parts are cming in. Even portugal wont want useless backstabbers like this. Theyre the ones responsible for opposing all the development projects .

  55. Many indians especially hindus are flocking from various regions of india into Portugal. Misery ridden india can not even take care of its citizens. What are these chaps talking about inquisition?

  56. I am a middle class Indian Hindu and i am just discovering for myself that some of our Goans are considering leaving India. I feel so sad now. Don’t know anything about Goans or their culture, had toured goa with our family when i was in school but now even though i have no business with the Goans i feel very sad after reading about all these. I will give no opinion here, just wanted to say that i still remember those wonderful Goa Holiday moments.

    • Panjim & Bombay said:

      Dear Ravi, it´s so nice to know that there are still some decent Hindus out there.
      I loved so much your festivals, and sweet treats. It is such a pity that there is a feeling of such distain and an extremista agenda in India. I too remember Goa as a child, we also had wonderful festas, delicious food and it all blended into one headonistic and wonderful amalgomy of colours, cultures, music, foods, scents, etc it was magical.
      I hope that India does not continue to descend along the path of cultural isolation by disrespecting others.
      Saúde.

  57. Alistair said:

    Hello All,

    I would like to add few things here, everybody in Indian have always hurted or insulted all the Catholics living in India be it raping the Nuns hitting the priest why have we done anything wrong no, did we cut people’s throats like how ISIL is doing right now to other, then what have we done to other community members then why are we targeted as a Catholics be it East Indian – (Bombay Portuguese) original Catholics from Bombay I bet hardly anybody knows about us and others are Goan Catholics, or mangalorean Catholics Syrian Catholics etc and many more we as Catholics have never felt safe or respected and every aspects in India, as per my experience when East – Indian Catholics (Bombay Portuguese) lived in Bombay in peace and harmony till Portuguese rule then we were given to the British empire that have our ancestor worked in East India company that how we got the Title as East – Indian Catholics,
    One small story when I was a kid we had neighbors Freaking Gujus from Gujarat when they had a Pooja they were give sweets to others when they were giving to me one of them shouted arey they are Christians don’t give them they eat Non – Veg I was scared and shocked bloody hell you come to my village and live and earn money this is what to tell us and if you have so much of problem then why do you come to our lands where we eat Non – Veg and were we are Catholics lives , go fuck off to your state and fuck yourself don’t come to Bombay, Goa and Pondicherry.
    You guys fucked up Bombay and you guys are doing the same to Goa.
    now when everybody started coming to Bombay to have a better life and started living here hence all the Houses and lands even crosses were broken or taken away and we were highly taxed by Maratha’s because we were Catholics were either taken away by outsiders or the British Government and then Bombay became Mumbai and our peacefully settlement were thrown away now that’s what is happening with Goa today same story and same ending, we all Eurasian mixed race not saying iam not saying that iam not proud of India and the Culture iam freaking exotic and awesome but the People sucks your mental state is so bad and just greed and selfish behavior is not going to take this beautiful country any where Eg Countries like England, Portugal, Dutch, French came to India Why ??? Because there was things in this country that they have never seen be it Gold or Woman or whatever they came ruled and made they own country better and btw this country is self governed for more than 60 Years of Freedom what happened we as Indian never helped other selfish people with selfless life.

    Again we have never inferred with anybody and would like to infer with anybody we would just want to be left alone be with Portugal or India or any freaking country just be the way we are.

    East Indian From Bombay.

  58. that goan boy said:

    B.Colaco has been bashing India and Goa for the past ten years or even more while being safely ensconced in Macao. It reminds me of the old saying there are the blind who cannot see and then there are the blind who wont see. The world is talking about the quantum leaps in improvement in almost all sectors by India, but these Portu fans will not see this.

  59. This is a shocker ,never knew so many Goans consider themselves Portuguese (i knew that they think themselves as different from rest of India and like to be called Goans instead of Indians.) But anyways since Portuguese is offering it’s citizenship and people who want to be a part of Portuguese are going. I don’t see a reason Goa not to be as not a part of India considering there are Goans who consider themselves Indians. (I see many of them in comments)

    • that goan boy said:

      These Goan Portuguese take the Portuguese passport land in Lisbon and take the next flight to Swindon. BUT now what will they do with that Portuguese passport after Brexit

    • Hashmam said:

      Don’t be shocked.

      My dad was born in Aldona, in 1953. His father was a Hindu (Portuguese speaking not konkani), his mother a catholic Portuguese. They stayed in Goa after independence. They wanted to give India a shot. I was born in 1984. And by then my grandparents had migrated to Mozambique before eventually settling in Lisbon.

      My dad tried very hard with Goa, tried very hard to keep positive. But the rampant indianization of Goa has killed our Portuguese culture. I am Hindu but still Portuguese.

      In 2002 when I turned 18 I had the choice to become Portuguese. As my dad was born in Goa before 1961.

      I took up the opportunity and I migrated in Lisbon with my parents. They now live with my grandparents.

  60. that goan boy said:

    Goa has been a part of India since the dawn of time and will always be. The crazy Portuguese Goans will flout their favourite argument that India did not exist before 1947. How can you explain to duffers that a a land mass Goa was and is and integral part of India.

  61. Very balanced view of Goa

  62. Saying Goa was better off under Portuguese is like saying that Kashmir is better off under Pakistan…. What a shame that anyone can write an article like this… The thriving secular culture of Goa can exist only in Indian rule, not under the rule of the Portuguese (remember Goa Inquisition? )

  63. I know this site offers quality based articles and other information, is there
    any other web site which gives such data in quality?

  64. Excellent way of describing, and pleasant post to obtain facts about my presentation focus, which i am going too deliver in institution off higher education.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Tag Cloud

%d bloggers like this: